# Obama Sets Up Commission To "Fight" The Deficit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 27, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566 "2010-04-27T21:43:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/81 "2010-04-28T21:01:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Why is it that Republicans want another Depression? The last time they caused one they were out of office for 20 years. Remember how much great literature, music and film came out of or is based on the Great Depression™? The Pubs are nobly sacrificing their short-term political prospects for the sake of American art and culture. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/82 "2010-04-28T22:13:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite? > **[US Deficit for FY2025: $2.03 trillion.](http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit_chart.html)** > > The federal deficit for FY2026 will be $1.55 trillion. It is the amount by which federal outlays in the federal budget exceed federal receipts. Source: OMB Historical Tables. It went down a little in 2009 but 2010 budgeted at $180B more than Bush’s top deficit (2008). Since the stimulus bill was passed in 2008, I’m assuming that the figures were all front-loaded to 2008 even though it hasn’t all been spent yet. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/83 "2010-04-28T22:40:07Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The amazing thing is the level of debate from the right is so low right now, I had to read your post twice to make sure you weren’t serious. 😃 Glad it wasn’t just me. For a minute there I thought someone was feeding \*\*MWAG \*\*poisoned German bananas! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/84 "2010-04-28T22:40:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Everyone here pays taxes, Wrong (at least with respect to US FIT). Almost half of all Americans pay no US FIT, and I would imagine that that group is over-represented on the SDMB. > [@](#): > > and Obama has CUT your taxes, douchebag. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/85 "2010-04-28T22:48:42Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Wrong (at least with respect to US FIT). Almost half of all Americans pay no US FIT, and I would imagine that that group is over-represented on the SDMB. But there are more taxes than just FIT, and that was Dio’s exact point and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/86 "2010-04-28T22:52:48Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Meh. All the idiots on the SDMB who don’t pay any taxes are somehow totally fine with an increase in taxes. Who’d a thunk it? I still want the government to take all your money away and give it to undeserving poor people. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/87 "2010-04-28T22:55:28Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I’m fine with an increase in taxes, because it’s _fucking necessary to pay for all the shit our last President got us into._ If you want to pay more in taxes, you are perfectly free to do so. Your willingness to do so doesn’t mean that it’s OK for the government to force the unwilling to do so. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If you ignore all taxes except the federal income tax (which makes up about 30% of total tax receipts), then yes about 50% of people don’t pay ‘taxes’. But only if you choose to ignore all taxes except the federal income tax. You have to ignore state income tax, medicare taxes, social security taxes, property taxes, sales taxes, fuel taxes, corporate taxes, capital gain taxes, etc. > > Also if you refuse to classify any vehicle that isn’t a Toyota or Ford as a ‘car’, then about 2/3 of Americans don’t own ‘cars’. That is the talking point you are making. If you get to define ‘tax’, and ignore any tax you don’t want to count, it is easy to pretend 50% of people don’t pay ‘taxes’. > > It is insane how far the GOP has sunk in their manipulation. And nobody calls them on it. A minute of fact checking shows this talking point isn’t true and is highly manipulative but people still repeat it endlessly on the right. Where is our media? It sucks. > > Either way, your taxes are up. The bush tax cuts are repealed in 2011, and there are new medicare taxes at 3.8% for higher incomes. And it’ll get worse. yay. When we are talking about the US federal government (i.e., in this thread, “Obama”), then we are talking about the US federal income tax. It therefore doesn’t really matter that people that don’t pay any amount in US FIT happen to pay sales taxes and property taxes etc. etc. We are talking about the US FIT. To use your example, it’s like someone says “Let’s talk about people who own Fords” and you pipe up with “I own a Chevy!!” So what, we are talking about people who own Fords. And you are correct that my taxes will go up (but the 3.8% thing doesn’t kick in until 2013, so there’s hope for fiscal sanity to return to DC before then). > [@Ravenman](#): > > You claim to be a tax attorney and you think there’s a lot of people who “don’t pay any taxes?” > > You’re fucking retarded and completely incompetent. See above. Please go upstairs and ask your mother to explain it to you. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/88 "2010-04-28T22:56:50Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > But there are more taxes than just FIT, and that was Dio’s exact point and you know it. OK, I’d take a cite that Obama has caused my total tax liability to decrease, if that’s what Dio meant. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/89 "2010-04-28T22:58:05Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I still want the government to take all your money away and give it to undeserving poor people. Of course you do. There is no high road in the fiscal liberal position–it’s just thuggery, as you are showing. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/90 "2010-04-28T23:00:06Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > When we are talking about the US federal government (i.e., in this thread, “Obama”), then we are talking about the US federal income tax. It therefore doesn’t really matter that people that don’t pay any amount in US FIT happen to pay sales taxes and property taxes etc. etc. We are talking about the US FIT. There are plenty of federal taxes that aren’t income tax. Capital Gains, payroll taxes, excise taxes, taxes on corporate profits, etc, etc. I think its a stretch to say that when you say “federal taxes” everyone will think you’re talking about “federal income tax”. Federal Income doesn’t even make up the majority of federal revenues. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/91 "2010-04-28T23:06:50Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > There are plenty of federal taxes that aren’t income tax. **Capital Gains** , payroll taxes, excise taxes, **taxes on corporate profits** , etc, etc. I think its a stretch to say that when you say “federal taxes” everyone will think you’re talking about “federal income tax”. Federal Income doesn’t even make up the majority of federal revenues. The two bolded items above are part of the US FIT (i.e., there’s no separate “capital gains tax” or “tax on corporate profits”). Also, the US FIT does indeed make up the majority of federal revenues (cite: [http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm](http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm)). Once you add in payroll taxes (which are very much like income taxes since they are a percentage of wages), you’ve accounted for almost all of federal revenues. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/92 "2010-04-28T23:09:10Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > There are plenty of federal taxes that aren’t income tax. Capital Gains, payroll taxes, excise taxes, taxes on corporate profits, etc, etc. I think its a stretch to say that when you say “federal taxes” everyone will think you’re talking about “federal income tax”. Federal Income doesn’t even make up the majority of federal revenues. Look, **RR** is a tax GOD, which is why he shits out more in caviar than you make in a decade. Obviously when he referse to “federal tax” he is referring to a single, particular line on the form. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/93 "2010-04-28T23:12:07Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Also, the US FIT does indeed make up the majority of federal revenues (cite: [http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm](http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm)). Once you add in payroll taxes (which are very much like income taxes since they are a percentage of wages), you’ve accounted for almost all of federal revenues. But once you’ve added in payroll taxes, your original statement isn’t true anymore. Far more then 53% of Americans pay into payroll taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/94 "2010-04-28T23:13:02Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > I still want the government to take all your money away and give it to undeserving poor people. At this point, I’d be okay with the government taking Rand Rover’s money to serve as an emergency toilet paper reserve for the homeless. Homeless with _diarhea._ ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/95 "2010-04-28T23:15:31Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > But once you’ve added in payroll taxes, your original statement isn’t true anymore. Far more then 53% of Americans pay into payroll taxes. I was just pointing out that payroll taxes are like income taxes. I don’t need to “add them in” to my original statement–I don’t know what you are getting at there (other than to take attention away from the fact that your statement that federal income tax does not make up the majority of federal revenues is wrong, as I showed). ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/96 "2010-04-28T23:18:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > At this point, I’d be okay with the government taking Rand Rover’s money to serve as an emergency toilet paper reserve for the homeless. > Homeless with _diarhea._ That would probably do more good than the idiot shit Obama wants to do with my money (i.e., health care reform and cap and trade). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/97 "2010-04-28T23:26:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > That would probably do more good than the idiot shit Obama wants to do with my money (i.e., health care reform and cap and trade). We shall see… ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/98 "2010-04-28T23:29:20Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I was just pointing out that payroll taxes are like income taxes. I don’t need to “add them in” to my original statement–I don’t know what you are getting at there (other than to take attention away from the fact that your statement that federal income tax does not make up the majority of federal revenues is wrong, as I showed). But my original point still stands. There are other federal taxes which take in sizable proportion of federal revenues that aren’t included in the income tax. Saying that “federal taxes” obviously means the federal income tax is false. That the proportion is 53 or 43% of revenues is interesting, but doesn’t really make a difference to my argument. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/99 "2010-04-28T23:32:39Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I was just pointing out that payroll taxes are like income taxes. I don’t need to “add them in” to my original statement–I don’t know what you are getting at there (other than to take attention away from the fact that your statement that federal income tax does not make up the majority of federal revenues is wrong, as I showed). Yes, you DO need to add them to your original statement, in order for it to be internally consistent. If you now try to say you “obviously” meant FEDERAL taxes, then you had better include FEDERAL payroll taxes. And more than 53% of people pay those. Your logical argument skills suck. It’s like **Starving Artist** impregnated **Curlcoat** , and you’re the resultant bastard love child. Must go and vomit a bit now, with that image. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566/100 "2010-04-28T23:33:06Z")
Simplico, you don’t seem so clear on the concept of “a majority.” Why don’t you go look it up and get back with us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-sets-up-commission-to-fight-the-deficit/537566.md?page=6)