# Obama shakes hands with Raul Castro. So what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985 "2013-12-10T15:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/1 "2013-12-10T15:32:26Z")
At Nelson Mandela’s funeral, [Obama shook hands with Raul Castro](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/obama-shakes-hands-castro_n_4417952.html#). Liberals are excited, while the RW blogosphere seethes (partly because Obama seems to be **bowing** to Castro, but I think he’s just looking down because he’s taller). I think this is just a common gesture of courtesy at a public event, and does not portend any change in Cuban-American relations. Does anyone think different? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/2 "2013-12-10T15:37:49Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/3 "2013-12-10T15:38:07Z")
Are liberals excited? I haven’t seen any comments other than “oh boy, here comes another right wing freak out.” I don’t think it means anything other than common courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/4 "2013-12-10T15:41:48Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > don’t think it means anything other than common courtesy. No such thing when it comes to heads of state. You can bet your bottom dollar that this was discussed with Obama’s staff and agreed on in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/5 "2013-12-10T15:41:55Z")
I saw that this morning and thought, “Good, our Cuba policy hasn’t worked ever and maybe this is a start to a rapprochement… and start the stopwatch so we can precisely time the right-wing freak out!” ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/6 "2013-12-10T15:47:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No such thing when it comes to heads of state. You can bet your bottom dollar that this was discussed with Obama’s staff and agreed on in advance. You’re probably right, but still, I don’t think it means any kind of rapproachment attempt is on the horizon. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/7 "2013-12-10T15:49:28Z")
> [@davidw](#): > > You’re probably right, but still, I don’t think it means any kind of rapproachment attempt is on the horizon. Probably not. But it does open the door, if ever so slightly. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/8 "2013-12-10T15:52:38Z")
This is Obama being [consistent with his statements from 2007](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/may/21/next-defining-campaign-issue/): > [@](#): > > “Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration, in Washington or anywhere else, with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?” > > “I would,” Obama said. “And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them — which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration — is ridiculous.” Refusing to shake hands with the leader of Cuba would be an exercise of the diplomatic principle he explicitly rejected. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/9 "2013-12-10T15:54:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At Nelson Mandela’s funeral, [Obama shook hands with Raul Castro](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/obama-shakes-hands-castro_n_4417952.html#). Liberals are excited, while the RW blogosphere seethes (partly because Obama seems to be **bowing** to Castro, but I think he’s just looking down because he’s taller). > > I think this is just a common gesture of courtesy at a public event, and does not portend any change in Cuban-American relations. Does anyone think different? I might concede that it represents a lack of open antagonism, although the US’s stance on Cuba has been very slowly relaxing for some time now. I don’t think Raul is likely to be on Obama’s Christmas card list yet though. Personally, once I heard they’d both be there it seemed obvious that 1) there would be a handshake, and 2) a right-wing freakout would follow. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > No such thing when it comes to heads of state. You can bet your bottom dollar that this was discussed with Obama’s staff and agreed on in advance. Yes, but in politics even “common courtesy” needs to be planned out because it has diplomatic implications. They presumably discussed the options and felt that the best one was a polite handshake and greeting; the alternatives (avoidance or an open snub) would have caused far more disturbance and would have been disrespectful given the setting. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/10 "2013-12-10T15:55:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At Nelson Mandela’s funeral, [Obama shook hands with Raul Castro](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/obama-shakes-hands-castro_n_4417952.html#). Liberals are excited, while the RW blogosphere seethes (partly because Obama seems to be **bowing** to Castro, but I think he’s just looking down because he’s taller). > > I think this is just a common gesture of courtesy at a public event, and does not portend any change in Cuban-American relations. Does anyone think different? I think the kinds of people who are going to freak out about this (or, conversely, read a lot into it) are going to do so regardless of what Obama does or doesn’t do. Personally I’m more at the _yawn_ stage as far as this goes. He shook hands with Raul? That’s nice. Wonder if he’s gotten to boink the wife lately… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/11 "2013-12-10T15:59:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No such thing when it comes to heads of state. You can bet your bottom dollar that this was discussed with Obama’s staff and agreed on in advance. I wonder if they would have decided any differently, if it had been Fidel? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/12 "2013-12-10T16:01:09Z")
On the bright side, he can now increase drone killings. Everyone wins. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/13 "2013-12-10T16:03:41Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > On the bright side, he can now increase drone killings. > > Everyone wins. 😕 How are the two connected? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/14 "2013-12-10T16:03:44Z")
I’m also reminded of [this handshake](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3695678.stm) between Robert Mugabe and then-UK Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, which occurred at a time when relations between the UK and Zimbabwe were particularly bad (not that they’ve improved much since). Straw’s explanation (which is supported by the video of the event, which I’ve seen) was: > [@](#): > > “I was sort of being pushed towards shaking hands with somebody as a matter of courtesy, and then it transpired it was President Mugabe,” he added. > > “But the fact that there is serious disagreement between Zimbabwe and the UK does not mean we should be discourteous or rude.” Which I think covers the Castro-Obama handshake as well. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/15 "2013-12-10T16:07:59Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > On the bright side, he can now increase drone killings. > > Everyone wins. So, what you are saying is that if he hadn’t shaken Raul’s hand he wouldn’t be able to do more drone killing? And that now that he has, he’s going to do so? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/16 "2013-12-10T16:10:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I wonder if they would have decided any differently, if it had been Fidel? I think it’s a happy coincidence that Obama did not have to make a decision about that. He may have wanted to, but I doubt he would have. Not Fidel. And not with Ahmadenijad, either. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/17 "2013-12-10T16:15:09Z")
To be fair, if there’s one occasion where a gesture of reconciliation with a historical opponent wouldn’t be completely out of place it’s Nelson Mandela’s funeral. “He makes me want to be a better man. Also, screw you Raul!” ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/18 "2013-12-10T16:21:04Z")
Can you imagine what would have happened if they fist bumped? Fistegeddon! Handpocalypse! ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/19 "2013-12-10T16:21:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So, what you are saying is that if he hadn’t shaken Raul’s hand he wouldn’t be able to do more drone killing? And that now that he has, he’s going to do so? 😛 Not exactly. Raul is just a prop. Obama has demonstrated certain “peaks” in the way he goes about his role. As in, doing actions that are individually further from the center (in either direction) rather than abstaining from those actions and thus keep the steady path of a “centrist”. Those individual actions peak in terms of doing what left/progressives/liberals really, really like (which irritates right/libertarians/conservatives) and then, in the very next move, exact opposite. It’s almost at the point of annoying when WH initiates something on Monday and then hits hard on the brakes with “Congress has to act” on Tuesday. I may be wrong … ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/20 "2013-12-10T16:22:20Z")
Why does it have to be so personal that the leaders of two nations, even those in dispute, cannot shake hands and must refuse to do so as some sort of petulant display? If I was the leader of the USA even in the middle of WWII and I somehow met Adolf Hitler (as unlikely as that would be), I’d still offer my hand. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985.md?page=2)