# Obama shakes hands with Raul Castro. So what? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985 "2013-12-10T15:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Sunshine\_and\_Smiles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunshine_and_Smiles)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/61 "2013-12-11T04:50:44Z")
I for one am glad he did this. Mostly because, as others have said, this is the polite thing to do. It was not a moment for political statement, it was a moment to come together and remember - to think on the greater ideals of what Mandela was fighting for. Secondarily because I’ve never known why this wonderful island country to the south of us is so terrifically off-limits. Okay, I get the backstory of communism this and missiles that. But at this point, when we’ve even got our own shady base there, why are we not opening up relations with this country?! If the historical cite is all that’s holding the embargo together, then that is just so terribly antiquated in its thinking I lose words. Hasn’t it been shown that a positive influence on a nation is better than a negative (or in this case, completely null)? Admittedly I am younger than the policy-makers and most on this board who were around at a time when Cuba was a real threat, but it hasn’t been remotely that since I’ve been alive and this whole ban on product and travel seems preposterous to me. I honestly do not get it. I would love to see a candidate who says open up trade to Cuba! Why the hell not? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/62 "2013-12-11T05:05:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Das Danish milkenshugga das boys mein yard gebringgen…” She could teach you, but she’d have to charge. La la, la la. The prez is waiting … But what language is that? I’m assuming Danish, but it looks like German. Google translate says Afrikaans. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/63 "2013-12-11T05:18:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think it’s a happy coincidence that Obama did not have to make a decision about that. He may have wanted to, but I doubt he would have. Not Fidel. And not with Ahmadenijad, either. Well, I maybe stand corrected. Apparently, Bill Clinton shook hands with Fidel while he, Bill, was president. Read that in one of the news stories today… didn’t know that. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/64 "2013-12-11T06:33:19Z")
Actually, I bought a book on communism ( which focuses on it’s sins, and scarcely mentions the sins of it’s opponents ) _today_, called ‘Comrades’ by Robert Harvey, which includes a photograph of Castro and Nixon shaking hands in 1959. Of course this was before Fidel was soured rather by endless attempts on his life by the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/65 "2013-12-11T11:16:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > What did China or Vietnam do? And what difference does it make? What matters is not that Cuba has changed but that the world has changed. Remember the Zapatista rebels in Chiapas, Mexico? They don’t even bother to call themselves Marxists. If their rebellion had started 10 or even 20 years earlier they would have, and Cuba would have been accused of backing them and might even have done so. But now the name of Marx has lost its power to conjure, and the Cuban regime is no threat to anyone beyond Cuba’s shores. The Cold War is over. All the considerations that might have seemed to warrant an embargo are no longer relevant at all. The butthurt ex-regime and families from Cuba seem to think that if we dis Cuba enough they will get their lands and businesses back. It is simply not happening and they need to deal with it and get over it. It isn’t a family reunion, where we can show our contempt for Cousin Fern by ignoring her and her family because of what they did 45 years back to Our Jimmy That One Time … There is nothing we can gain from embargoing Cuba, every other country int he world seems to recognize them and is happy trading with them. We have a potentially good trade partner sitting there not being utilized because a bunch of wealthy criminals and butthurt business owners and land owners seem to think we can somehow 50 years later pressure Cuba into reverting back to Batista era Cuba. It simply is not happening, and fuck it all, I want to be able to travel to Cuba if I damned well want. It can’t be human rights, I can go to North Korea, China or anywhere else I can get a plane ticket and rail ticket and hire a car and get to. So, butthurt asshats, fuck off - it was a handshake, not the end of the world. Get your heads out of your asses and let us normalize with Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/66 "2013-12-11T11:49:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > At Nelson Mandela’s funeral, [Obama shook hands with Raul Castro](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/obama-shakes-hands-castro_n_4417952.html#). Liberals are excited, while the RW blogosphere seethes (partly because Obama seems to be **bowing** to Castro, but I think he’s just looking down because he’s taller). > > I think this is just a common gesture of courtesy at a public event, and does not portend any change in Cuban-American relations. Does anyone think different? I agree with you, A hand shake was just admitting he was there, his follow up statement showed he didn’t approve of Castro. Because the silly extremists want to find fault with everything President Obama does,or says. President Obama could bring world peace, and make everyone rich and the extreme right would say he had help from the devil! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/67 "2013-12-11T11:55:43Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > I agree with you, A hand shake was just admitting he was there, his follow up statement showed he didn’t approve of Castro. Because the silly extremists want to find fault with everything President Obama does,or says. > > President Obama could bring world peace, and make everyone rich and the extreme right would say he had help from the devil! To the Christians I would say;Aren’t you supposed to love your enimmies;return good for evil? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/68 "2013-12-11T12:06:52Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > The butthurt ex-regime and families from Cuba seem to think that if we dis Cuba enough they will get their lands and businesses back. It is simply not happening and they need to deal with it and get over it. And this is why we don’t have relations with Cuba. Fortunately, that voting bloc is dying off rapidly (and hasn’t voted Democratic for like 20 or 30 years anyway), so the whole thing should resolve itself soon-ish. I’m thinking that as soon as a guy not named Castro takes over, the embargo thaws. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/69 "2013-12-11T13:20:11Z")
Or just let the population of Puerto Ricans and inmigrant Latin/South Americans in Florida keep growing at a pace to outstrip the Dade Cubans. They generally will vote against whatever the Cubans are for and v.v., just out of scorn for the Cubans having received privileged treatment. Yes, unfair because it was the Cubans that hispanicized South Florida, but such is life. That will probably happen long before a majority of millennial-generation CubAms stand up and say “Y’know what, Abuelo? My only \*patria \*is the US of A. My only flag has 13 red stripes. There is no farm waiting for me to inherit it in some island I’ve never been to.” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/70 "2013-12-11T13:53:15Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > That will probably happen long before a majority of millennial-generation CubAms stand up and say “Y’know what, Abuelo? My only \*patria \*is the US of A. My only flag has 13 red stripes. There is no farm waiting for me to inherit it in some island I’ve never been to.” Don’t have time to pull a cite right now, but I seem to recall a poll that said the millennials already feel that way by a majority. They have no particular desire to leave the land of the shopping mall for a third-world country 90 miles away. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/71 "2013-12-11T16:22:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, I maybe stand corrected. Apparently, Bill Clinton shook hands with Fidel while he, Bill, was president. Read that in one of the news stories today… didn’t know that. He did, and during his administration relations with Cuba improved dramatically. Restrictions on American travel were eased, US companies were allowed greater involvement (selling food in Cuba primarily), and the Orioles played the Cuban national team twice (won the first in eleven innings, got spanked in the second). There was an increasing feeling of, if not rapprochement, at least civility. 'Course, that changed a lot during the Bush years. A more cynical man than I would suggest that had a lot to do with the political and economic influence that the anti-Castro Cuban-American population wields on the right wing of US politics. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/72 "2013-12-11T19:26:04Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > To the Christians I would say;Aren’t you supposed to love your enimmies;return good for evil? Where’d you get a crazy idea like that? Jesus probably would’ve head-butted him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/73 "2013-12-11T19:34:25Z")
I can’t believe this is news, much less that somebody is reading it. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/74 "2013-12-11T20:57:18Z")
I think the more interesting news is that Ted Cruz [walked out](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2013/1211/Ted-Cruz-walks-out-on-Castro-at-Mandela-memorial.-Grandstanding) of the ceremony when Raul Castro spoke. Classy move, on a trip funded by the US taxpayers. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/75 "2013-12-11T22:33:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I saw that this morning and thought, “Good, our Cuba policy hasn’t worked ever and maybe this is a start to a rapprochement… and start the stopwatch so we can precisely time the right-wing freak out!” None of the right-wing websites I frequent seem to care much. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/76 "2013-12-11T23:01:55Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > None of the right-wing websites I frequent seem to care much. Based on last night’s _The Daily Show,_ it seems Fox News is making a big deal of it. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/77 "2013-12-11T23:16:54Z")
A Cuban friend of mine arrived in Mexico with a visa. Touched a foot on American soil. And the American people gave him a debit card. With this debit card he had three months worth of lodging/meals. This is because new Cuban immigrants are prohibited from working for three months. During the three months, a search is done on the immigrant to discover his past history in Cuba. If it is a go, then they can seek employment. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/78 "2013-12-11T23:48:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How many Americans are there in Cuban prisons anway? > > Serious question. Anybody know? > [@Human\_Action](#): > > And nationalized property owned by Americans. > > I can only find references to one, [Alan Gross.](http://atlantablackstar.com/2013/02/20/u-s-delegation-trip-leaves-cuba-after-unsuccessful-negotiations/) > > [Amnesty International](http://www.phaseloop.com/foreignprisoners/pris-cuba.html) doesn’t list any Americans amongst prisoners of conscience in Cuba. You’re not counting the ones in [Guantanamo Bay.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_detainees_at_Guantanamo_Bay) Oh, wait, those are OUR American prisoners. Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/79 "2013-12-12T00:22:15Z")
> [@harmonicamoon](#): > > A Cuban friend of mine arrived in Mexico with a visa. Touched a foot on American soil. And the American people gave him a debit card. With this debit card he had three months worth of lodging/meals. This is because new Cuban immigrants are prohibited from working for three months. During the three months, a search is done on the immigrant to discover his past history in Cuba. If it is a go, then they can seek employment. Dafuq? Sorry, I have serious FOAF bells ringing. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985/80 "2013-12-12T00:33:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No such thing when it comes to heads of state. You can bet your bottom dollar that this was discussed with Obama’s staff and agreed on in advance. How about Shrub’s backrub of Angela Merkel? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-shakes-hands-with-raul-castro-so-what/675985.md?page=5)