# Obama should form a junta and storm the White House **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 6, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011 "2008-12-06T16:44:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/21 "2008-12-06T20:14:33Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Coming soon to a White House near you - the most precipitous popularity crash in US history. > > Sweet Jesus have mercy. I didn’t even vote for him, and I feel sorry for him already. He isn’t even President yet, and they are complaining he hasn’t fixed the country’s problems yet? Amd this is from his _friends_. > > “See that cliff over there? Let’s jump off, and see if we can fly.” That would be nice. Except that Obama is a member of at least one of them. I’d love to see him finish his acceptance speech then take a leisurely stroll across the surface of The Reflecting Pool. I bet David Copperfield could help him set up the gag. Maybe to give Jews equal time he could part the waters of the Tidal Basin as well. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/22 "2008-12-06T20:23:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I was under the impression that FDR did a great deal to combat the Depression. Am I mistaken? He did a lot of work to combat it, no doubt. But, there are a lot of issues with what he did and how he did it. Sufice it to say, raising taxes in a depression or recession isn’t a good plan, and an awful lot of his projects had nasty tendency to do very little of use… except put economic power into his hands. He made people feel good, but he wasn’t good for them. In a way, it’s a good thing WW2 came along. Of course, he had nothing to do with starting it. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/23 "2008-12-06T20:27:21Z")
Actually, the shame of it was that Roosevelt was one of the finer men we had in the White House. A brilliant politician, rich and unashamed of it, but never looking down on people who were not. He had a bad habit of overstretching, however. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/24 "2008-12-06T20:45:06Z")
Hey **Shodan** , what’s the margin of error on that poll you trust so much? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/25 "2008-12-06T21:32:12Z")
> [@Struan](#): > > The man hasn’t even (technically) been elected yet. Yes he has. He simply hasn’t been _sworn in_. But he’s been elected all right. As for Bush, can we say “senior-itis?” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/26 "2008-12-06T21:38:20Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > **Lib** , you and I have been on opposite sides on many threads (primarily, those pertaining to religion), but I fuckin’ LOVE having you on my side in politics. It’s my pleasure. 🙂 > [@DanBlather](#): > > My sentiment as well. Nicely written OP. It’d be great if the public supports Obama while still holding both parties feet to the fire. That’s what I think we’re gonna see. In fact, I think the elections between now and 2016 are going to go to those who are perceived to be the most helpful and cooperative with Obama, irrespective of party. > [@Shodan](#): > > Sweet Jesus have mercy. I didn’t even vote for him, and I feel sorry for him already. He isn’t even President yet, and they are complaining he hasn’t fixed the country’s problems yet? Amd this is from his _friends_. It’s almost like the New Testament story of Jesus telling people who will call him Lord, “Go away from me. I never knew you.” I tried to explain early on that Obama is no left-weenie. He’s a true, honest-to-God leader who just happens to have used the Democratic Party machine as a means to acceed to a position of leadership. The cry babies aren’t his friends; they’re his burden. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/27 "2008-12-06T21:42:58Z")
> [@Guinastasia to Struan](#): > > Yes he has [been elected]. He simply hasn’t been _sworn in_. But he’s been elected all right. No, Struan is right. The only thing we elected on November 4 was electors. They meet on December 15 to elect the President. Congress counts their votes on January 8. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/28 "2008-12-06T21:48:59Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Yes he has. He simply hasn’t been _sworn in_. But he’s been elected all right. > > As for Bush, can we say “senior-itis?” The Electoral College doesn’t meet until December 15th. Technically he’s not president-elect until they meet and cast their votes. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/29 "2008-12-06T22:00:03Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I’d love to see him finish his acceptance speech then take a leisurely stroll across the surface of The Reflecting Pool. I bet David Copperfield could help him set up the gag. That would be awesome! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/30 "2008-12-06T22:02:51Z")
[http://www.greenrightnow.com/fox11az/2008/11/07/bush-officials-planning-to-roll-back-environmental-protections/](http://www.greenrightnow.com/fox11az/2008/11/07/bush-officials-planning-to-roll-back-environmental-protections/) Too late ,he is rolling back environmental rules on the way out. ---
**Author:** ![Caveat\_lector\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@Caveat\_lector\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caveat_lector_1)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/31 "2008-12-06T22:13:16Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I’d love to see him finish his acceptance speech then take a leisurely stroll across the surface of The Reflecting Pool. I bet David Copperfield could help him set up the gag. Maybe to give Jews equal time he could part the waters of the Tidal Basin as well. If we put enough corn starch in it we could pull this off and it can’t make the area look any worse.\* It couldn’t be too leisurely though. \*When I visited the pool it, and the area directly around it, was pretty nasty. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/32 "2008-12-06T22:15:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No, Struan is right. The only thing we elected on November 4 was electors. They meet on December 15 to elect the President. Congress counts their votes on January 8. :smack: Okay, never mind. Sorry, I’m just eager to get the shrub out of there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/33 "2008-12-06T22:21:12Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :smack: > > Okay, never mind. > > Sorry, I’m just eager to get the shrub out of there. That’s okay. The whole thing just highlights the ridiculous nature of the call for Obama to take over. I don’t think the Secret Service or the Marine Corps would look kindly upon any such attempt. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/34 "2008-12-06T22:28:22Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Hey **Shodan** , what’s the margin of error on that poll you trust so much? [3.1%](http://www.w-r-s.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ziegler_media-study_detailed-methodology_081202.pdf) (pdf) of the one I cited. > [@](#): > > I tried to explain early on that Obama is no left-weenie. He’s a true, honest-to-God leader who just happens to have used the Democratic Party machine as a means to acceed to a position of leadership. The cry babies aren’t his friends; they’re his burden. And are in control of Congress. Obama has to work with them just as much as Bush did - more, if he wants to accomplish anything at all. They are eager for a scapegoat, Obama has a big target on his back. It ain’t gonna be pretty. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/35 "2008-12-06T22:34:38Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > [3.1%](http://www.w-r-s.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/ziegler_media-study_detailed-methodology_081202.pdf) (pdf) of the one I cited. > > Regards, > Shodan Does that 3.1% figure apply to the sub-group of McCain-supporting respondents? ETA: just curious, btw. I’m not at all surprised to learn that Republicans are more aware, in general, that Democrats currently control Congress. But I would have pegged it as a slightly lower margin, ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2008, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/36 "2008-12-06T22:52:41Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > :smack: > > Okay, never mind. > > Sorry, I’m just eager to get the shrub out of there. Ah, don’t worry, the actual mechanics of elections are often obscure. Our Prime Ministers have to turn up at the Palace to ask if they can form a Government. When they get there they have to face down the dread gorgon gaze of “Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of Her other Realms and Territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith”. I hope, and expect, that she makes them all shite themselves. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/37 "2008-12-07T01:30:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > They are eager for a scapegoat, Obama has a big target on his back. Then they are commiting political suicide. The people will support Obama. Ordinary folks revere good leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/38 "2008-12-07T03:56:35Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Does that 3.1% figure apply to the sub-group of McCain-supporting respondents? > > ETA: just curious, btw. I’m not at all surprised to learn that Republicans are more aware, in general, that Democrats currently control Congress. But I would have pegged it as a slightly lower margin, That Ziegler poll is rife with errors in design and slanted as hell. Anyone should be embarassed to be quoted them in a public forum. Nate Silver, over at [fivethirtyeight.com](http://fivethirtyeight.com) had some back and forths with Ziegler in which he attempted to question Ziegler about those issues and Ziegler lost his mind. It’s a pointless poll and most intelligent people could set one up just as leaning in about 20 minutes. You’ll forgive me if I don’t take it seriously. Here’s some history on the Ziegler/Silver discussions: > **[Zogby – FiveThirtyEight](https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/zogby/)** > > FiveThirtyEight uses statistical analysis - hard numbers - to tell compelling stories about elections, politics and American society. Also, here is a column from the Wall Street Journal (Bialik, 11/20/08) in which Zogby himself distances himself from the poll, the results, and why his firm did the work. [Bialik’s Column](http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/zogbys-misleading-poll-of-obama-voters-459/) My favorite quote: > [@](#): > > Zogby said he wouldn’t have approved the poll without including McCain supporters. “A more honest poll would have been conducted had we also focused on McCain people,” he said. He added that some of the questions weren’t worded fairly. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/39 "2008-12-07T04:03:32Z")
The Congressional control question is pretty fair though (as even Nate admits). I wouldn’t entirely trust the results given the firm, but I think the question is on the level. And of course Fox News talks more about the Dems in Congress, so Republicans are more aware of that fact. Unsurprising, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011/40 "2008-12-07T04:06:39Z")
However, if you read Bialik’s column you’ll see that Pew ran a similar question to supporters of all candidates a bit later and only 53% of all respondents got the question correct. It’s damning, yes, but more of everyone than one side or the other. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-should-form-a-junta-and-storm-the-white-house/476011.md?page=3)