# Obama signs "Monsanto Protection Act" into law despite protests **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 28, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224 "2013-03-28T23:48:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/21 "2013-03-29T05:32:07Z")
So when you said “go on”, what you really meant was “might start”? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/22 "2013-03-29T05:34:13Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > It actually doesn’t even do that…So, if you’ve planted a previously-approved GMO crop, a newly filed objection to the approval won’t require you to tear up those existing crops. But it will stop you from planting that particular crop again, until the issue is resolved. Thanks for the clarification and an enjoyable article to read. Suing farmers over patent rights sounds like a completely separate issue from the amendment’s coverage. I do hope it signals a change for more complete regulatory overhaul. The layers of approval required for something that is logically harmless amazes me. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/23 "2013-03-29T05:44:27Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > So when you said “go on”, what you really meant was “might start”? no, you can search individual law suits of both types. I just can’t break down the numbers of each. I suspect the seed-reuse is the bulk of the lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/24 "2013-03-29T05:50:25Z")
[one example.](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-4048288.html) basically, the farmer has to prove their seeds were not the patented seeds which is difficult with cross pollination. Or so the story goes. I’m not a farmer or bio-engineer. It’s not like news organizations can be depended on to research anything properly. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/25 "2013-03-29T12:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=The Law] the Secretary of Agriculture shall … immediately grant temporary permit(s) or temporary deregulation in part, … [/QUOTE] IANAL, but have read commentaries (e.g. in _Harper’s_) claiming that reasonable-looking rules may, in fact, prevent regulation, e.g. when there is no limit on the appealing or reviewing process, or even when finite reviews are unwieldy. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ugh, people have to get over the GM foods. They are perfectly fine Speaking only for myself, it is ecological concerns that worry me about Roundup Ready crops, etc., _not_ their edibility. I suspect many would take that view but willingly take support from those concerned about edibility (though not I). BTW, what was Obama’s position on the law? Did he sign it just as quid pro quo? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/26 "2013-03-29T12:50:48Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > So, if you’ve planted a previously-approved GMO crop, a newly filed objection to the approval won’t require you to tear up those existing crops. But it will stop you from planting that particular crop again, until the issue is resolved. This reading of the newly passed regulation makes sense (to a non-lawyer, anyway). If there’s anything in the statute that prohibits federal court lawsuits from being filed over allegedly dangerous GM crops, I’m not seeing it. > [@Magiver](#): > > And Monsanto can go on suing farmers when their seeds contaminate the farmer’s crop thus forcing farmers to buy Monsanto seeds and the matching weed killer. It should be pointed out that the most notorious of these suits (which went to the Supreme Court, where the farmer lost), involved a farmer who deliberately purchased seed at a local grain elevator in an area where most farmers were planting Roundup-Ready crops. He reasoned that the seed would carry the Monsanto genetic characteristics (which it did) and got himself a Roundup-Ready field without paying the company for the product. It sued and won. I am suspicious of Monsanto’s doings on general grounds, and one reason I am sick of the anti-GM crowd’s falsehoods and exaggerations is that it puts me in the position of seeming to defend this company. I would rather speak out in favor of projects like the introduction of [golden rice](http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/feb/02/genetic-modification-breakthrough-golden-rice) (a vitamin A-enhanced GM variety whose planting in developing countries could save many lives and prevent blindness from vitamin A deficiency). Introduction has been long held up by attacks from anti-GM groups, who fear success of golden rice could pave the way for use of other GM technology (suffering people be damned). ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/27 "2013-03-29T12:52:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [one example.](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-4048288.html) Is it? The article states: > [@](#): > > David Runyon and his wife Dawn put a lifetime of work into their 900-acre Indiana farm, and almost lost it all over a seed they say they never planted. > > “I don’t believe any company has the right to come into someone’s home and threaten their livelihood,” Dawn said, “to bring them into such physical turmoil as this company did to us.” > > The Runyons charge bio-tech giant Monsanto sent investigators to their home unannounced, demanded years of farming records, and later threatened to sue them for patent infringement. The Runyons say an anonymous tip led Monsanto to suspect that genetically modified soybeans were growing on their property. The Runyons were never sued. Monsanto did [decide they were ineligible to buy their products](http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/dave-runyon.aspx); that is all. > [@Magiver](#): > > basically, the farmer has to prove their seeds were not the patented seeds which is difficult with cross pollination. No, Monsanto has to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that the farmer violated their agreement with Monsanto, or commercially used their seed without such an agreement. > [@Magiver](#): > > Or so the story goes. I’m not a farmer or bio-engineer. It’s not like news organizations can be depended on to research anything properly. Not on this issue, they certainly cannot. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/28 "2013-03-29T13:47:06Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > BTW, what was Obama’s position on the law? Did he sign it just as quid pro quo? It was in the continuing resolution to prevent a government shutdown - since that section expires like everything else in 6 months or so, it certainly doesn’t seem like it was worth a veto, which would then have forced the House and Senate to either override or pass a new bill without that section. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/29 "2013-03-29T14:04:29Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Ugh, people have to get over the GM foods. They are perfectly fine Show your work, or STFU. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/30 "2013-03-29T14:15:19Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Show your work, or STFU. Here, to get you [started](http://www.agbioworld.org/biotech-info/articles/biotech-art/peer-reviewed-pubs.html): > [@](#): > > There are at least 42 publications extractable from the PubMed database that describe research reports of feeding studies of GM feed or food products derived from GM crops. The overwhelming majority of publications report that GM feed and food produced no significant differences in the test animals. The two studies reporting negative results were published in 1998 and 1999 and no confirmation of these effects have since been published. Many studies have been published since 2002 and all have reported no negative impact of feeding GM feed to the test species. Your turn. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/31 "2013-03-29T14:22:40Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Show your work, or STFU. Well, that’s a pretty hard response to what I would consider a pretty reasonable statement given the facts as I understand them. Now of course, I’m just an insurance guy who focuses on civil law and policy language. The closest I ever get to agriculture is failing to grow a decent head of lettuce in my home garden in any given year. So maybe there is some evidence out there, which I don’t know about, that definiteively shows GMO crops are unsafe? Surely, given the amount of protest, there is widespread harm caused by these sorts of products that I’ve just missed for not being attuned to the situation. So…what’s unsafe about them? Proven unsafeness, not hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/32 "2013-03-29T14:31:26Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Show your work, or STFU. Not much scientific analysis is really needed. If [Greenpeace](http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/agriculture/problem/genetic-engineering/) is weighing in on something, the odds are overwhelming that they are wrong. A blind squirrel still finds a nut every once in a while, but nobody ever lost their shirt betting against Greenpeace. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/33 "2013-03-29T15:03:19Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > If anyone was starting to doubt that big corporations essentially own the US government… > [http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/farmers\_and\_food\_safety\_advocates\_lead\_monsanto\_backlash\_partner/](http://www.salon.com/2013/03/27/farmers_and_food_safety_advocates_lead_monsanto_backlash_partner/) Monsanto seems determined to kill off the insect population of the entire world, including the bees. If they succeed, and a great hunger due to lack of pollinating insects occurred, we have the comfort of knowing they couldn’t be sued. [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/science/earth/soaring-bee-deaths-in-2012-sound-alarm-on-malady.html?hp&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/science/earth/soaring-bee-deaths-in-2012-sound-alarm-on-malady.html?hp&_r=0) > [@](#): > > **Mystery Malady Kills More Bees, Heightening Worry on Farms** > By MICHAEL WINES > BAKERSFIELD, Calif. — A mysterious malady that has been killing honeybees en masse for several years appears to have expanded drastically in the last year, commercial beekeepers say, wiping out 40 percent or even 50 percent of the hives needed to pollinate many of the nation’s fruits and vegetables. > > A conclusive explanation so far has escaped scientists studying the ailment, colony collapse disorder, since it first surfaced around 2005. But beekeepers and some researchers say there is growing evidence that a powerful new class of pesticides known as neonicotinoids, incorporated into the plants themselves, could be an important factor. > > The pesticide industry disputes that. But its representatives also say they are open to further studies to clarify what, if anything, is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/34 "2013-03-29T15:32:44Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Monsanto seems determined to kill off the insect population of the entire world, including the bees. It is much to early to draw that conclusion, the USDOA Colony Collapse Disorder Steering Committee’s [second report](http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/br/ccd/ccdprogressreport2010.pdf) has stated: > [@](#): > > During the past 3 years, numerous causes for CCD have been proposed and examined. There have been many associations identified throughout the course of research; however, it is becoming increasingly clear that no single factor alone is responsible for the malady. In short: we don’t know yet. Jumping to conclusions won’t help anyone. > [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > If they succeed, and a great hunger due to lack of pollinating insects occurred, we have the comfort of knowing they couldn’t be sued. That’s not what this law does, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/35 "2013-03-29T16:15:14Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Is it? The article states: > > The Runyons were never sued. Monsanto did [decide they were ineligible to buy their products](http://www.monsanto.com/newsviews/Pages/dave-runyon.aspx); that is all. [Here](http://www.popdecay.com/2013/02/19/monsanto-sues-farmer-for-exploiting-loophole-in-gmo-licensing/15336)’s a site that better explains what happened. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/36 "2013-03-29T16:42:58Z")
Why is this thread not titled “Republican controlled house attaches ‘Monsanto Protection Act’ rider to funding bill” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/37 "2013-03-29T16:43:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Here](http://www.popdecay.com/2013/02/19/monsanto-sues-farmer-for-exploiting-loophole-in-gmo-licensing/15336)’s a site that better explains what happened. Actually, it doesn’t, because: 1. That article is about a different person (Vernon Bowman) than the other one (David and Dawn Runyon, with a mention of Mo Parr). 2. Your claim was: > [@Magiver](#): > > Monsanto can go on suing farmers when their seeds contaminate the farmer’s crop thus forcing farmers to buy Monsanto seeds and the matching weed killer. > > … > > basically, the farmer has to prove their seeds were not the patented seeds which is difficult with cross pollination. That is not at all what happened with Bowman. From the article you linked to: > [@](#): > > Like almost every other farmer in Indiana. Bowman used the patented seeds for his main crop. But for a risky, late-season crop on his 300 acres in Sandborn, about 100 miles southwest of Indianapolis, Bowman said, “I wanted a cheap source of seed.” > > He couldn’t reuse his own beans or buy seeds from other farmers who had similar agreements with Monsanto and other companies licensed to sell genetically engineered seeds. And dealers he used to buy cheap seed from no longer carry the unmodified seeds. > > So Bowman found what looked like a loophole and **went to a grain elevator that held soybeans it typically sells for feed, milling and other uses, but not as seed.** > Bowman reasoned that most of those soybeans also would be resistant to weed killers, as they initially came from herbicide-resistant seeds too. He was right, and he repeated the practice over eight years. Bolding mine. This was not a cross-pollination matter; Bowman and other local farmers signed an agreement when they bought the Monsanto seeds not to replant the seeds or sell them. So, Bowman bought seeds that other farmers had sold to the grain elevator with the understanding that they’d be used for feed or milling and not planting, and planted them. [Per an interview with Bowman](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/02/18/171896311/farmers-fight-with-monsanto-reaches-the-supreme-court), he admits that the seed was labelled as not being for planting: > [@](#): > > “They made sure they didn’t sell it as seed. Their ticket said, 'Outbound grain,” says Bowman. Did Bowman infringe the patent? That’s for the courts to decide (and they are, [this case was argued before the Supreme Court](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/justices-signal-a-monsanto-edge-in-patent-case.html) last month). Is this a case of Monsanto going after a farmer who was a helpless victim of wind-blown cross-pollination? Unequivocally, no. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/38 "2013-03-29T17:03:58Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > BTW, what was Obama’s position on the law? Did he sign it just as quid pro quo? He signed it because Congress stuck it in a must-sign bill which prevented a government shutdown, funded food stamps and the Violence Against Women Act, and so forth. That’s how things work in a government of divided powers. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/39 "2013-03-29T17:19:02Z")
Sorry, I didn’t post the cite to back up what I said, I posted it for detail. I should have stated that and didn’t out of lazyness. Bowman did try an end run around the agreement. I don’t like Monsanto’s methodology and subsequent monopoly on seed stock but that’s a different issue. The only case I could find regarding cross contamination involved a Canadian farmer ([Schmeiser](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc._v._Schmeiser)). Although the farmer didn’t have to pay Monsanto for replanting cross contaminated seeds it was because he didn’t profit from the venture. He lost 50 years of plant breeding over this. It appears that cross contamination transfers the patent. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224/40 "2013-03-29T17:20:58Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > Monsanto seems determined to kill off the insect population of the entire world, including the bees. If they succeed, and a great hunger due to lack of pollinating insects occurred, we have the comfort of knowing they couldn’t be sued. > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/science/earth/soaring-bee-deaths-in-2012-sound-alarm-on-malady.html?hp&\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/science/earth/soaring-bee-deaths-in-2012-sound-alarm-on-malady.html?hp&_r=0) Your linked article does not mention Monsanto. The major producers of neonicotinoid pesticides (which may be one of a number of factors in increasing bee deaths) are [Bayer and Syngenta](http://blogs.northcountrypublicradio.org/thedirt/2013/03/19/europe-declines-ban-of-pesticides-linked-to-bee-harm/), not Monsanto. But feel free to resume your Monsanto Is Eee-vil rant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-signs-monsanto-protection-act-into-law-despite-protests/654224.md?page=3)