# Obama Stands With Mexican Prez, Against Az Law **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050 "2010-05-19T20:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/121 "2010-05-20T00:53:04Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Isn’t there a slight difference in that, so far as I can tell, you are welcoming of the idea of profiling based upon apparent race, yet I would be quite surprised if people were stopped in the street by police after being identified for a crime by race alone. I mean, it’s far too vague. If you went out and stopped or questioned people based solely on apparent race - and, i’m led to understand, in a state where you’re likely to have a high percentage of Hispanic looking citizens - then it’s not really going to be all that helpful. It seems far too inefficient - it’s not just a waste of citizen’s time, but police time. [/QUOTE] Sure…but I doubt that the policia are going to just randomly pull over Hispanic looking folks in Arizona (as you noted, they’d be fairly busy if they did). There are other levels to this sort of profiling, after all. They are probably going to target young Hispanics, or Hispanics driving around in large groups in beat up cars or other criteria I’m sure you can guess at. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/122 "2010-05-20T00:54:12Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > No, please! Give **Bosstone** the pony! Just let it live! > > Does this mean I get the pony now? Yup. Elaine v. Kramer, Newman, J., Presiding. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/123 "2010-05-20T00:56:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because they are Mexicans, of course. Brown skinned and foreign and speaking a funny language. It’s called bigotry. And because legal immigrants would be harder to exploit and abuse, and would actually be owed benefits for the taxes they pay. We want an endless stream of people we can exploit and abuse, and blame them for being our victims. I guess you don’t word what the word “rationale” means. Let me help, it doesn’t mean restate your original unsubstantiated nonsense with the words shuffled around a little. Try reading my post and what I was commenting on. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/124 "2010-05-20T01:01:15Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Yeah, it sucks when you have to reap what you sow. > > -Joe Kindly go bugger a porcupine. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/125 "2010-05-20T01:04:44Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > If we enforce the law against the employers, they won’t try to cross the border in the first place. Have you seen the estimates on the cost to seal the border? Are you in favor of increasing the deficit unnecessarily? > > If we enforce the law against the employers, there will be no need to enforce the law against the illegal aliens. The one that are here will leave, and the ones that are in Mexico will stay there. Why should we bust the budget solving unnecessary problems? You big government conservatives are all alike. Well, since I view national defense and securing our borders two of the most legitimate reasons for the existence of a federal government and the taxes they collect, I don’t view it as unnecessary. I might tend to agree with you if we 1) didn’t already have 12 million illegals here and 2) had an Amnesty under Reagan, and 3) have most of the leadership on the left and some one the right advocating Amnesty Light/Path to Citizenship:rolleyes:. Those last two encourage further illegals, as we’re building a reasonable expectation that as long as you’re able to sneak across the border or overstay a visa, eventually you’ll be able to stay legally and get citizenship. So, while I agree that going after the employers is something that should be done in a big way and immediately, I believe it’s naive to think that it is all we have to do. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/126 "2010-05-20T01:07:53Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] You seem to have become good-natured about this type of injustice, and learned to let it roll off your back. I don’t have the self control you obviously do. Just reading your post pissed me off. [/QUOTE] No…it only seems that way. The reality is it pisses me off as well, or at least it used to when it happened to me more often (when I was younger). > [@](#): > > I’m biracial and not Hispanic but, because of my complexion, have been mistaken as Hispanic more times than I can count. Don’t think that I’m not worried about my next semi-annual business trip to the Camelback in Scottsdale. Arizona has suddenly become as attractive a destination to me as Kabul Afghanistan. Yeah, I can see that, though the reality will probably be that unless you are a young Hispanic looking guy driving around with your homies in an expensive car (with the suspension dropped, gold hub caps, etc), or in a beat up old pickup truck with 20 of your equally dark complexioned friends, you probably won’t have any issues. It’s a stupid law passed by knee jerking political idiots and fueled by the fears of the folks who live there with a healthy dollop of some kind of -ism (as I said, I know plenty of Hispanic Americans who are actually in favor of this piece of shit). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7993a0/32.png) [@Jamaika\_a\_jamaikaiake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamaika_a_jamaikaiake)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/127 "2010-05-20T01:09:45Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So what are we to do? Throw open the border completely and allow unfettered immigration from Mexico because to do otherwise discriminates against people because of how they look? I agree with **Starving Artist**. Except I would do it because it makes the most sense with respect to economics and basic human rights. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/128 "2010-05-20T01:12:43Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > “I agree with you, but STFU”? > I’d’ve loved to see W pull that shit on Tony Blair when poodle boy offered to prop up our weak intelligence on the threat posed by Saddam’s WMD’s. Well, not exactly those words. Maybe, “Shut the fuck up you hypocritical meddling mother fucker”. [Especially after this:](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100519/D9FQ5FOG0.html) (bolding mine) > [@](#): > > In asking anew for an immigration overhaul, Obama showed solidarity with his guest of honor, Mexican President Felipe Calderon, who called Arizona’s law discriminatory **and warned Mexico would reject any effort to "criminalize migration.**" What a dumb and/or dishonest fuck. Calderon, that is. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/129 "2010-05-20T01:20:27Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > You seem to have become good-natured about this type of injustice, and learned to let it roll off your back. I don’t have the self control you obviously do. Just reading your post pissed me off. > > I’m biracial and not Hispanic but, because of my complexion, have been mistaken as Hispanic more times than I can count. Don’t think that I’m not worried about my next semi-annual business trip to the Camelback in Scottsdale. Arizona has suddenly become as attractive a destination to me as Kabul Afghanistan. Please say that you’re using hyperbole. Or admit that you are a **Der Trihs** sock. In which case, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/130 "2010-05-20T01:21:28Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > You know, I actually agree with you. Racism is anathema to American politics - its restoration is a radical political philosophy, and not conservative at all. Do you know who ELSE had a radical not-really-conservative racist political philosophy? Pim Fortuyn, that’s who! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/131 "2010-05-20T01:30:29Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Oh yes, I think we do get it. This is a continuation of the Repubs’ [Southern strategy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy), though this time it’s racism against Hispanics rather than racism against Blacks that’s being exploited. Yes, we’ll see in November if it’s working or not: I’ll concede that I’m afraid that it might work for some people, but I’m hopeful that enough will find it distasteful enough to cause a backlash against the Repubs. I continue to be bewildered (albeit pleased) as to why the Republicans continue to shoot themselves in the foot re Hispanics. There’s a natural affinity for the party with many Hispanics, at least the devoutly religious and/or conservative types. Enough of an affinity that I think the GOP could pull fairly close to a 50-50 split of the Hispanic vote if they quit kowtowing to the Know Nothing wing of the party. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/132 "2010-05-20T01:30:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Please say that you’re using hyperbole. Or admit that you are a **Der Trihs** sock. In which case, carry on. Sorry to disappoint you, on both counts. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/133 "2010-05-20T01:47:45Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Yeah, I can see that, though the reality will probably be that unless you are a young Hispanic looking guy driving around with your homies in an expensive car (with the suspension dropped, gold hub caps, etc), or in a beat up old pickup truck with 20 of your equally dark complexioned friends, you probably won’t have any issues. I hear ya, but why chance it when there’s probably a zero percent chance I’ll be commanded, under threat of arrest, to show my “papers” if I simply keep my ass out of Arizona? > [@xtisme](#): > > It’s a stupid law passed by knee jerking political idiots and fueled by the fears of the folks who live there with a healthy dollop of some kind of -ism (as I said, I know **plenty of Hispanic Americans who are actually in favor of this piece of shit** ). …which is just as ridiculous, stupid, and destructive as black people justifying Jim Crow. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/134 "2010-05-20T02:06:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I continue to be bewildered (albeit pleased) as to why the Republicans continue to shoot themselves in the foot re Hispanics. There’s a natural affinity for the party with many Hispanics, at least the devoutly religious and/or conservative types. Enough of an affinity that I think the GOP could pull fairly close to a 50-50 split of the Hispanic vote if they quit kowtowing to the Know Nothing wing of the party. This is true. However, a vociferous, if not controlling element of the party has a big problem with brown people, which overrides any desire from other factions to appeal to the Hispanic voter. If Mexicans looked like Argentines, I suspect the current hue and cry about illegal immigration would be more a whisper than a roar. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/135 "2010-05-20T02:22:43Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I continue to be bewildered (albeit pleased) as to why the Republicans continue to shoot themselves in the foot re Hispanics. There’s a natural affinity for the party with many Hispanics, at least the devoutly religious and/or conservative types. Enough of an affinity that I think the GOP could pull fairly close to a 50-50 split of the Hispanic vote if they quit kowtowing to the Know Nothing wing of the party. They do it because after generations of pandering to the racists, they have become thoroughly infested with them. The people the Southern Strategy was designed to attract, the xenophobic, racist, fanatic “Know Nothings” have had decades to join the party, work their way up the hierarchy and to finally _become_ the party. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/136 "2010-05-20T02:36:40Z")
> [@campp](#): > > Are you kidding? It’s pretty bad. I’m not at all interested in finding cites for all of that, but it is daily life here. Kidnapping capital of the US. Running gun battles on US Interstate freeways between gangs fighting for who “owns” the human cargo they are smuggling. Family members being tortured for money and afraid to come forward. Drop houses hiding in plain sight with sometimes a hundred undocumenteds hiding inside. Small vehicles pulled over with 20 illegals who scatter into the bushes. Asswipes walking across the border and [killing US ranchers](http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/03/29/20100329rancher-killed-at-arizona-ranch.html)and then walking back across. Arizonans afraid to go camping or fishing or boating or anything off-road in the southern part of the state. If it’s that bad, and that rampant, and has been for any length of time, then this new law won’t fix anything. In fact, I want to know just what the fuck The Law has been doing so far. Nothing, if it’s that bad already. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/137 "2010-05-20T02:45:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, since I view national defense and securing our borders two of the most legitimate reasons for the existence of a federal government and the taxes they collect, I don’t view it as unnecessary. If 99% of illegals go home, it is unecessary. And sealing the border is impossible without spending hundreds of billions of dollars that we don’t have. My way is easier, cheaper, and has a better outcome. > [@](#): > > I might tend to agree with you if we 1) didn’t already have 12 million illegals here and 2) had an Amnesty under Reagan, and 3) have most of the leadership on the left and some one the right advocating Amnesty Light/Path to Citizenship:rolleyes:. Those last two encourage further illegals, as we’re building a reasonable expectation that as long as you’re able to sneak across the border or overstay a visa, eventually you’ll be able to stay legally and get citizenship. Illegal immigrants are coming here for jobs to support their families in Mexico. Most of them don’t want to stay here, they would rather be in Mexico if there were jobs. They are not going to stay here without a job on the slim chance that some day in the future there may be an amnesty. Citizenship is not attracting them to America; illegal jobs are. Put out the candle, and the moths will go away. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/138 "2010-05-20T02:58:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, Arizona isn’t serious; this is just a harass-brown-people law. > > Please. America has always relied on cheap labor, often outright slavery. Black slaves, Chinese immigrants, Mexican immigrants. > > No, it’s because most Americans are bigots or there would be just as much desire to punish the people employing them. But there isn’t, because it’s about race not the law. > > No, I’m saying that people want to stop LEGAL immigration from Mexico so they can exploit illegal immigrants. > > Obama’s not a liberal or even close. And again, this has nothing to do with making people obeying the law. > > Yeah, sure; right until they have to pay more for food and pay more taxes to make up for it. Smoke a joint, man. You’re waaaay too tense. > [@Merijeek](#): > > Quick! Someone tell **ralf** that gullible isn’t in the dictionary! > > -Joe Dude, provide something of substance once and awhile, lest you become a belittled drive-by artist for left politics. Anything! Substantiate your **elucidator** imitations, something! Friends? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/139 "2010-05-20T03:09:43Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > I’ll just say what everyone else is thinking: Are you fucking kidding? Same as I thought. Geezuz, OP, man up and just proclaim your racism. Because outright racism is just a teeny bit less loathsome than trying to hide it in this manner. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/140 "2010-05-20T03:13:09Z")
> [@](#): > > And not white illegal immigrants from places like Britain, Germany, Canada…they are white and therefore not bothered. > [@Starving Artist](#): > > They are also separated from us by an ocean and can’t come flooding in here like illegal immigrants from Mexico can… Canada is separated from you by an ocean now? So that’s what all those rumbling noises last month were. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050.md?page=8)