# Obama Stands With Mexican Prez, Against Az Law **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 19, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050 "2010-05-19T20:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/161 "2010-05-20T15:16:17Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Obviously the OP. He thinks it’s unamerican for Obama to stand with a foreign head of state and trash an American law. That’s bullshit. It’s a god damn racist law. He could stand with Martians and trash it for all I care. > > The America I know doesn’t condone racism. In fact, to me it makes Obama MORE American because he’s able to recognize that just because something has American origins, doesn’t mean it’s not full of shit. If he wants to stand with Calderon or the Communist Party of China, then it would STILL be a shitty racist law and Obama would STILL be more American than the asshole racists who voted for this law I’m right with you on everything you just stated except that America doesn’t condone racism. America’s condoned racism for over 200 years, and segments of American society, and an entire political party, benefit from its perpetuation to this very day, even without the stupid and, yes, racist Arizona legislation. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/162 "2010-05-20T15:21:35Z")
Last night my Mig and his brother were picked up during a raid at the local day labor pick-up spot. He said maybe 20 Suburbans and trucks with ICE surrounded them and cornered them against a fenced in ditch. They were questioned and at least some were released. Mostly ICE was interested in where they worked and how they came to the U.S. They took addresses and noted descriptions/tattoos. Mig thought he was about to be sent to a detainment facility but they first divided the men (around fifty) into groups. His group was told they could go early on so he didn’t know if or how many were taken in. Last he heard they were waiting on a van. Mig has no form of ID at all since it was all stolen a few years ago so I’m shocked they let him go. Of course he also has no criminal record or warrants. He does day labor so there was no employer to turn in. I don’t know why they didn’t keep him honestly but I’m so glad they let him go. So now ICE knows where he and his brother live. They don’t think he’s a big enough fish to wrangle. I feel like even though he’s in the country with no papers I can talk about him here without another ass telling me I’m harboring illegals. I do not know what I’m going to do. I can’t just break up with the man because of his immigration status. We’re a family. I can’t go to Mexico. I have a child with special needs who requires various therapies. What’s left of Mig’s family lives in a shack in the middle of nowhere. The children have no shoes. Food is in short supply. I’m not putting my child in that situation. I know this has really little to do with the topic here, but I just thought a little talk about someone who is truly dealing with ICE, not just a political argument, might make the situation more human. I don’t know about anyone else, but until I found myself IN this life I didn’t give two shits for the details of immigration. Fodder for argument, sure. But now I have to speak up, not just for my family but for all the families my daughter goes to school and therapy with, all the children who are US legal citizens, who stand to suffer because of the potential for racism with this law in Arizona. Gentlemen, you may slam me now. I’ll be back after I take my daughter to OT and speech. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/163 "2010-05-20T15:25:11Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > That’s it! Sweet potato pie being “shoved down everyone’s throats” Thank you for that phrase, **CannyDan**. It isn’t used nearly enough in these days when the socialists are doing _awful_ things to all real Americans. We _must_ keep their suffering in the forfront of the public imagination! ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/164 "2010-05-20T15:26:02Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Jesus Christ, man. Not only are you a frothing lunatic, you’re not even _internally_ consistent. We pass laws targeting illegals and yet we want them here to abuse them. If it’s the right that’s passing laws discouraging immigration to America, then the people that want illegal immigrants so they can be abused must be the…:eek:! Stop distorting what I am saying. I clearly said that the Right (and America in general) tries to discourage LEGAL immigration; it WANTS illegal immigration despite whatever lies it collectively spouts. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I _clearly_ never considered the effect on taxes because there’s no way I’d _ever_ pay more taxes so that the law can be enforced. You are a right winger, which means you are probably a bigot and definitely a parasite. I wouldn’t expect you to be honestly willing to pay more taxes even to save the country from annihilation, much less to enforce the law. Me…now I’m quite sure you’d be happy to make me pay more for your crusade. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > It’s not like I favor having police forces, FBIs, FDAs, DEAs, or anything like that, right? But only to enforce the laws selectivity, for the purposes of persecution. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/165 "2010-05-20T15:32:51Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > Last night my Mig and his brother were picked up during a raid at the local day labor pick-up spot. He said maybe 20 Suburbans and trucks with ICE surrounded them and cornered them against a fenced in ditch. They were questioned and at least some were released. Mostly ICE was interested in where they worked and how they came to the U.S. They took addresses and noted descriptions/tattoos. > > Mig thought he was about to be sent to a detainment facility but they first divided the men (around fifty) into groups. His group was told they could go early on so he didn’t know if or how many were taken in. Last he heard they were waiting on a van. Mig has no form of ID at all since it was all stolen a few years ago so I’m shocked they let him go. Of course he also has no criminal record or warrants. He does day labor so there was no employer to turn in. I don’t know why they didn’t keep him honestly but I’m so glad they let him go. > > So now ICE knows where he and his brother live. They don’t think he’s a big enough fish to wrangle. I feel like even though he’s in the country with no papers I can talk about him here without another ass telling me I’m harboring illegals. > > I do not know what I’m going to do. I can’t just break up with the man because of his immigration status. We’re a family. I can’t go to Mexico. I have a child with special needs who requires various therapies. What’s left of Mig’s family lives in a shack in the middle of nowhere. The children have no shoes. Food is in short supply. I’m not putting my child in that situation. > > I know this has really little to do with the topic here, but I just thought a little talk about someone who is truly dealing with ICE, not just a political argument, might make the situation more human. I don’t know about anyone else, but until I found myself IN this life I didn’t give two shits for the details of immigration. Fodder for argument, sure. But now I have to speak up, not just for my family but for all the families my daughter goes to school and therapy with, all the children who are US legal citizens, who stand to suffer because of the potential for racism with this law in Arizona. > > Gentlemen, you may slam me now. I’ll be back after I take my daughter to OT and speech. I’m just waiting for some knuckle-dragger to come in here and tell you how to live your life, or how to walk in shoes they will never have to and have no concept of. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/166 "2010-05-20T15:40:48Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I’m just waiting for some knuckle-dragger to come in here and tell you how to live your life, or how to walk in shoes they will never have to and have no concept of. With all due respect, I don’t believe we should formulate national policy on the basis on Mig and his brother. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/167 "2010-05-20T15:43:09Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Sorry to disappoint you, on both counts. Let me get this straight, you’re saying you were NOT using hyperbole when you said: (bolding mine) [QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] Don’t think that I’m not worried about my next semi-annual business trip to the Camelback in Scottsdale. **Arizona has suddenly become as attractive a destination to me as Kabul Afghanistan.** [/QUOTE] Please, could you share in what ways Arizona would be so bad. Or do you think Kabul would be lovely? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/168 "2010-05-20T15:44:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Stop distorting what I am saying. I clearly said that the Right (and America in general) tries to discourage LEGAL immigration; it WANTS illegal immigration despite whatever lies it collectively spouts. > > You are a right winger, which means you are probably a bigot and definitely a parasite. I wouldn’t expect you to be honestly willing to pay more taxes even to save the country from annihilation, much less to enforce the law. Me…now I’m quite sure you’d be happy to make me pay more for your crusade. > > But only to enforce the laws selectivity, for the purposes of persecution. I love it when you wax Manson. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/169 "2010-05-20T15:46:28Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > And marshmallows are a metaphor for – well – oh, I forget what, but _something_ liberal and awful. Gay marriage! ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/170 "2010-05-20T15:48:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > With all due respect, I don’t believe we should formulate national policy on the basis on Mig and his brother. It’s much easier when you can pretend they’re not real people in real situations, isn’t it? :rolleyes: Tell us what makes their lives atypical of those affected and you _might_ have something of a point. ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/171 "2010-05-20T15:51:41Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > It’s State over Ole Miss in the Egg Bowl…for the second year in a row. GO STATE! Blasphemy !!! ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/172 "2010-05-20T16:28:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > With all due respect, I don’t believe we should formulate national policy on the basis on Mig and his brother. On who and whose brother should we formulate it, then? :mad: “Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these…” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/173 "2010-05-20T16:29:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Tell us what makes their lives atypical of those affected and you _might_ have something of a point. Well, the raid RGG refers to has nothing to do with the new law; ICE is a federal agency (and the law hasn’t taken effect). ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/174 "2010-05-20T16:32:50Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Thank you for that phrase, **CannyDan**. > It isn’t used nearly enough in these days when the socialists are doing _awful_ things to all real Americans. > We _must_ keep their suffering in the forfront of the public imagination! Exactly. So pleased you see it too. > [@descamisado](#): > > Gay marriage! And “there you go again!!”. _Librul!!_ ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/175 "2010-05-20T16:33:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Let me get this straight, you’re saying you were NOT using hyperbole when you said: (bolding mine) > > Please, could you share in what ways Arizona would be so bad. Or do you think Kabul would be lovely? Listen, **magellan** , I’m going to take your question at face value and presume that you really want an answer, rather than simply a setup for one of your many interminable sarcastic retorts. First, I’ll make a presumption that you are white. That stipulated, you have absolutely no idea how it is to be on the receiving end of institutional racism and the powerlessness one experiences in that situation. Most adult minorities in this country have either experienced this first hand or have parents who have through most of their lives. On the one hand, your, at best, minimization of the Arizona legislation as racist is somewhat understandable, as you have no personal experience or point of reference, in addition to supporting a political philosophy and a contemporary party known for its lack of empathy. On the other hand, your callousness and dismissal in matters of discrimination is not only disappointing but alarming, as I don’t consider you to be a stupid person. Not that personal anecdotes will, or should, change your mind, but my parents dealt with years of discrimination and outright racism simply because they were of different races and married each other in the early '60s. My mother’s parents couldn’t vote or travel freely. My mother’s grandparents began their lives as slaves. My point is this is the kind of thing that is part of a person as it is with me, even though my brushes with overt racism are nothing when compared with what my forebears experienced. So, to answer your question, **magellan** , yes, I was NOT using hyperbole when I said that Arizona is now as attractive as Kabul Afghanistan to me. I won’t go there unless I have to and, even then, will curtail any extracurricular activities I may have otherwise planned. In addition, I simply won’t support discrimination or racism in any of its insidious forms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/176 "2010-05-20T16:34:09Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > On who and whose brother should we formulate it, then? :mad: “Inasmuch as you have done it unto one of the least of these…” Cue the response: OK, you want to base legislation on The Bible? Bring it on! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/177 "2010-05-20T16:34:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, the raid RGG refers to has nothing to do with the new law; ICE is a federal agency (and the law hasn’t taken effect). Sure. The one legal argument that I believe has a chance at toppling this law is the federal preemption one: Arizona can’t legislate in this area because the feds already have. In the case mentioned by **RushGeekgirl** , these were federal agents. And on a broader scale, obviously I am loathe to attack someone who obviously has a great deal of personal attachment to the outcome of our immigration question. But at the same time, it must be clear to everyone that we can’t develop national policy based on anecdote, no matter how poignant. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/178 "2010-05-20T16:40:42Z")
And yet, Arizona developed state policy based on it. Take a look through the editorial pages and you’ll see about nine thousand lines of, “illegal immigrants killed a rancher!” and about three lines of statistical argument. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/179 "2010-05-20T16:44:57Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > I’m right with you on everything you just stated except that America doesn’t condone racism. America’s condoned racism for over 200 years, and segments of American society, and an entire political party, benefit from its perpetuation to this very day, even without the stupid and, yes, racist Arizona legislation. You’re right, we do condone it, as evidenced by this law. I should have said that it is against our outwardly stated values that such things not be tolerated, even though fear and xenophobia makes it a reality in many places ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050/180 "2010-05-20T16:56:00Z")
Meh. We’re doing a hell of a lot better vis-a-vis institutional racism than we were 50 years ago, SB 1070 notwithstanding. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stands-with-mexican-prez-against-az-law/540050.md?page=10)