# Obama: Stop, take a deep breath and explain to me...... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 21, 2008, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128 "2008-05-21T17:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/101 "2008-05-22T20:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=Paladud] Honestly, his background (law school -\> community organizer -\> elected office, with a conversion to Christianity tacked on) seems purely power-seeking. People have made comments to that effect about Bobby Jindal on this very forum, but Obama seems to get a pass. [/QUOTE] Excuse me? Jindal worked as a consultant to Fortune 500 companies for a couple of years before he went into _cabinet-level_ state public service in Louisiana. He wasn’t \*near \*community organizing. Jindal doesn’t have a law degree, either… his graduate work is in biology and public policy. He’s no Obama by a long shot. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/102 "2008-05-22T20:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I think you’re taking a leap to assume that your views on gun control are typical. They may not be uncommon but I would not assume that they are typical. People who base their entire political view on the Second Half of the Second Amendment are not likely Democratic voters in the first place. I’m sure Obama will not get your vote, but I rather doubt any Democrat would. He’ll just have to get by without the NRA endorsement. [/QUOTE] **Bob** , I think that you wrong here a bit. There are some who have similar gun related beliefs as **Argent** does who _will_ be voting for Obama. They are, as is **Argent** , attracted to his POV on other issues and concerned that McCain and the Republican party have attacked privacy rights, for example. The difference is that **Argent** seems to hold these beliefs as the key issue, the litmus test issue upon which everything else is secondary, and many others hold these gun rights issues as just one of many issues that they consider important. In short Obama may very well get votes from many who belong to the NRA despite the fact that he is against conceraled carry. I again just hope that **Argent** can recognize that disagreeing about this one issue need not mean moral or intellectual inadequacy by either side of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/103 "2008-05-22T22:29:26Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] Lots of Western countries had loads of people murdered by their own government in the past 70 years. Germany comes to mind. They didn’t do “just fine.” [/QUOTE] If the government wants to murder you and your whole town, your personal ownership of a handgun or fifty isn’t going to make a difference against an organized and trained military force with access to much more advanced equipment and weaponry. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2008, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/104 "2008-05-22T23:29:42Z")
[QUOTE=Algorithm] If the government wants to murder you and your whole town, your personal ownership of a handgun or fifty isn’t going to make a difference against an organized and trained military force with access to much more advanced equipment and weaponry. [/QUOTE] Depends on whom is doing the weapon owning and what kind of weapons they own. I’m sure the British felt the same way about the Colonials, although to be fair, the weapons technology was a far more level playing field then. I know a couple ex-military guys that have veritable arsenals and have what are literally reinforced, stocked bunkers on their property. Enough like-minded people equipped like that could make a stand. For a while, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/105 "2008-05-23T02:20:06Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] I know a couple ex-military guys that have veritable arsenals and have what are literally reinforced, stocked bunkers on their property. Enough like-minded people equipped like that could make a stand. For a while, anyway. [/QUOTE] Do they have anti-aircraft capabilities? Are their bunkers deep enough to withstand [bunker busters](http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster.htm)? ---
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/106 "2008-05-23T02:37:40Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] See, all those people hiding weapons in New York City did not have carry permits. They had those guns illegally. And the fact that they were “looking to kill someone” (or rob someone, or rape someone) means that they’re already a criminal, gun or no gun. The fact that handgun permits were and are impossible for an average person to obtain in NYC means that the only people with the monopoly on the guns are criminals, and law-abiding people who wish to defend themselves from said criminals are unable to do so without becoming criminals themselves. Someone who’s a criminal doesn’t give two shits whether guns are legal or illegal. He is going to get a gun if he wants one, and he’s going to conceal it whether or not he has a permit. [/QUOTE] What protects people more than guns is the ability for the police to stop and arrest people with concealed guns. The 80’s were a huge police failure. Since then the NYPD has targeted small offenses and were able to greatly reduce crime because they found and confiscated a lot more weapons from the small offenders. If they couldn’t take the guns away crime would not have went down as much as it did during the 90’s. In more rural areas you have a lot of law abiding citizens with guns and less gangs. It’s a different environment. You just can’t ignore the cultural differences and say everyone across America should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/107 "2008-05-23T02:50:08Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Do they have anti-aircraft capabilities? Are their bunkers deep enough to withstand [bunker busters](http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster.htm)? [/QUOTE] As an ex-military man myself, I understand what you are saying and I realize the breadth and scope of US military weaponry. However, if insurgents in Iraq can effectively strike at the US military, so can well-armed people of this nation if the government decides to get “uppity”. I also realize that the chances for success are quite marginal. I was half-joking, but also insinuating that it isn’t impossible. Most guys I know that are stockpiling for Armageddon have 4 wheel drives, stocks of MRE’s, weapons and a plan for “when the shit hits the fan” to scoot into the wilderness. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/108 "2008-05-23T02:57:35Z")
Its kinda funny, I knew people like that too, back in the Dark Ages. Big admirers of the Weather Underground, Mao, Lumumba, people like that. Stockpile weapons and safe houses, places to hide in the boondocks when the facists came for them, or when the FBI started its program of assassinating political radicals, or when the Revolution comes. Some of them were ex-military, too, Viet Nam mostly. In fact, thats how they come to be so radical. Funny, huh? How very different, how very much alike… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/109 "2008-05-23T02:59:33Z")
I would love to see a bunch of those paranoid, gun fetish jack-offs try to fight a guerilla war against the US military. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/110 "2008-05-23T04:54:28Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Its kinda funny, I knew people like that too, back in the Dark Ages. Big admirers of the Weather Underground, Mao, Lumumba, people like that. Stockpile weapons and safe houses, places to hide in the boondocks when the facists came for them, or when the FBI started its program of assassinating political radicals, or when the Revolution comes. Some of them were ex-military, too, Viet Nam mostly. In fact, thats how they come to be so radical. Funny, huh? How very different, how very much alike… [/QUOTE] You know, most of those people are probably still around . . . ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/111 "2008-05-23T05:05:40Z")
[QUOTE=holmes] Dude, bring it down a notch. The thing about crime in New York and I haven’t lived there in over a decade, so take it for what it’s worth…were criminals attacking other criminals. Very rarely did innocent people have to fear for their lives…did it happen sure, but I assure you that the majority of us, rode the train, read our papers and minded our business without fear of thugs packing heat, looking to kill us. However, due to our experiences, we understood that someone hiding a gun was looking to do harm to someone; because we don’t have a gun culture. The only people who had guns were cops, criminals or people that needed them for their business. That’s the way that I grew up. My grandfather being a Southerner had rifles in the house; it’s a different culture, not bad or good; just different. Understanding that, and agreeing with that type of restriction if the state wants it; doesn’t mean I’m saying “fuck you” the rest of the country; that has a different relationship with guns than NY does and I imagine neither is Obama. Even if he thinks allowing concealed weapons is a bad idea; he believes in the Constitution…but like I said, we all have to draw our lines in the sand. [/QUOTE] I’d like to add to this because I agree with you. I don’t mind if you guys out in the country have guns, but here I think most New Yorkers prefer not to have guns. Do you really think for one second, that if I wanted a pistol that I couldn’t get one? Everyone in New York who wanted a gun could certainly get one somehow. As far as concealed carry? When was the last time you were stopped by a cop walking down the street? Never. The only possible time would be when they stop you for searching bags in the subway, but you can refuse that and leave. New Yorkers don’t carry guns because, as **holmes** said, there simply isn’t a need to. When am I going to need a gun? In a stickup? Seriously? Those people just want your money. The minute you pull out a gun there’s an actual confrontation with way too many variables that I would rather not get into. And if it is some lunatic that wants to kill, are you better off returning fire or running? I’d go with option two, becuase it’s not the wild west. I’m not very confident in my quick draw abilities. The point of all that is that Obama realizes that guns mean different things to different people. To the vast majority of people in the larger cities of the US they mean fear. In the rurual areas they mean freedom. You know, only 23 percent of Americans even own guns. I don’t think that we in the cities are being unreasonable to want stricter laws. I like our gun laws, and I’d bet a large percent of New Yorkers do too. ---
**Author:** ![diggleblop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac91a4/32.png) [@diggleblop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggleblop)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/112 "2008-05-23T05:08:24Z")
Obama’s race is what’s going to cause him to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/113 "2008-05-23T05:31:35Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I would love to see a bunch of those paranoid, gun fetish jack-offs try to fight a guerilla war against the US military. [/QUOTE] If I’m not mistaken **Diogenes,** I thought you’re very left-wing and therefore I imagine you’d be very unhappy with our current government and its numerous gross violations of our civil liberties and its quasi-fascist practices. I don’t get why so many liberals are against guns - these same people justifiably become outraged when the government infringes on all of our other civil liberties, but it’s OK with them that this same government has the monopoly on weapons? What the hell? It was the “paranoid, gun fetish jack-offs” who founded this damn country in the first place by rebelling against the British. Why such contempt for the spirit of revolution? I think a guerrilla insurgency against the U.S. government on its home turf would absolutely have a chance of winning. And once the government started using bunker busters and other stuff people have mentioned (if they did that at all) then huge segments of the military would be _joining_ the insurgency because they don’t want to see their families get killed by the government. And even if I couldn’t ever beat an oppressive regime, I’d rather **die fighting**. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/114 "2008-05-23T05:58:18Z")
**Argent** you see it is exactly that capacity for individuals upset over their perceptions of governmental misuse of power to use military type of action against “government” targets that scares so many of us, across the political spectrum. Whether the quasi-military action is by Left wing or Right wing groups the result has been attacks on people, not just some nebulous neferious “government”. And people working for the government have died as a result in the past. I would disagree with you that such was the original intent of an individual right to bear arms even accounting for that militia clause. And I would strongly disagree that such a capacity of individuals to mount a strenuous and significant attack on people who work for our government serves to discourage tyranny. I prefer the ballot box as a less ineffectual weapon. It is also a far from perfect tool but less imperfect than military force against those who work for us. Is it possible for you to acknowledge that individuals can conclude differently than you on this subject without their being ignorant or ethically bankrupt? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/115 "2008-05-23T06:04:49Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] If I’m not mistaken **Diogenes,** I thought you’re very left-wing and therefore I imagine you’d be very unhappy with our current government and its numerous gross violations of our civil liberties and its quasi-fascist practices. [/quote] We’re about to fix that, but regardless, I’m not insane or deluded enough to think a few whackjobs with hunting rifles and stockpiles of canned food are going to fight off the US Military. > [@](#): > > I don’t get why so many liberals are against guns - these same people justifiably become outraged when the government infringes on all of our other civil liberties, but it’s OK with them that this same government has the monopoly on weapons? What the hell? I’m not against guns, I just don’t have much use for anti-government paranoia. > [@](#): > > It was the “paranoid, gun fetish jack-offs” who founded this damn country in the first place by rebelling against the British. It was pointy-headed, elitist intellectuals who founded this country and the might of the US Military is just a tiny bit more advanced than the Red Coats and the Hessian mercenaries of old. > [@](#): > > Why such contempt for the spirit of revolution? Spirit schmirit. Spirit means nothing against a fleet of Apache gunships. The way to properly express your spirit of revolution is through the Democratic process. Seriously, what are you going to replace America with that’s better than America? > [@](#): > > I think a guerrilla insurgency against the U.S. government on its home turf would absolutely have a chance of winning. And once the government started using bunker busters and other stuff people have mentioned (if they did that at all) then huge segments of the military would be _joining_ the insurgency because they don’t want to see their families get killed by the government. > > And even if I couldn’t ever beat an oppressive regime, I’d rather **die fighting**. This sounds like Tim McVeigh levels of fantasy and delusion. Maybe you didn’t learn this in school, but we ARE the US government. It is not some occupying army of stormtroopers. The Government is American citizens, 99.99% of which are honest, hard working cubicle drones like everybody else. The idea that “The Government” is going to start mowing down American citizens is ridiculous. Anyone who gets a Bunker Buster dropped on their ass will have to have earned it. I’ll tell you something else, I would take up arms in a heartbeat to _defend_ the US against any bunch of deluded, militaristic whackjobs who want to attack it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/116 "2008-05-23T06:12:01Z")
Out of curiosity, how is this guerilla war supposedly going to start? Who’s going to fire the first shot? Do you think there’s going to be a groundswell of support among the masses for revolution because they’re so incenced about concealed carry laws? You know, the reason those kinds of laws get passed isn’t because the Man is trying to oppress you but because poliitcians in urban areas are responding to their constituents. People in a lot of cities are tired of rampant gun violence. The desire for gun control comes from the people, not from the government. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/117 "2008-05-23T14:35:38Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] When was the last time you were stopped by a cop walking down the street? Never. The only possible time would be when they stop you for searching bags in the subway, but you can refuse that and leave. [/quote] In error. Someone’s a recent New Yorker, or just not very aware of the world around them. Ol’ Mayor Rudy had a fun little roadblock program. [http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/crime/20020301/4/218](http://www.gothamgazette.com/article/crime/20020301/4/218) Stopped everyone, walkers and drivers alike. I know, my commute to work went through one that showed up every four-six months or so. And that’s just the citable version. Trust me, people get stopped and searched for no reason. Welcome to Rudy’s America. Heck, I bet you don’t even remember the recent Republican Convention where the cops busted demonstrators and people just walking by, threw 'em in jail, and then let 'em out. > [@](#): > > New Yorkers don’t carry guns because, as **holmes** said, there simply isn’t a need to. When am I going to need a gun? You really think New Yorkers don’t carry guns? You don’t get to the bodegas much, do you? The cash businesses, where they have to walk cash to the bank at the end of the night, a couple grand a day or week? Sure, if it’s just _your_ walking around cash, that’s one thing. But if it’s the receipts for a week for the store? Not so much. > [@](#): > > You know, only 23 percent of Americans even own guns. I don’t think that we in the cities are being unreasonable to want stricter laws. I like our gun laws, and I’d bet a large percent of New Yorkers do too. So, one out of four people own guns. That’ll admit to it. I reckon a fair lot of them are in the city. With you. Next door. Down the hall. Down the block. One out of four people near you may have a gun. Think about it. Smile! ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/118 "2008-05-23T16:29:49Z")
**Argent** , rather than continue the hijack about the Second Amendment, I’d like to suggest that as you decide which Presidential candidate to support, please consider what single-issue voting has done to the USA. I would contend it’s not good - regardless of which single issue is of concern. For the OP - I saw Obama speak, and he is AMAZING. I agree with him on many policy issues. I read **The Audacity of Hope** and I thought it was well-written, extremely thoughtful, and downright kind to people and positions that Obama opposes. That is precisely the attitude we need in our elected officials if we are going to move past the attack-machine and 50-percent-plus-one-vote politics of the last several presidential terms. I get the feeling that Obama wrote his books largely on his own - which puts him far above JFK in that regard. Voting for Obama is taking a chance - he’s relatively inexperienced. He could fall flat on his face, which is the polar opposite of what the USA needs right now. But he represents a break with politics as usual which is IMNSHO _precisely_ what the USA needs right now. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/119 "2008-05-23T17:10:04Z")
[QUOTE=Typo Knig] I get the feeling that Obama wrote his books largely on his own - which puts him far above JFK in that regard. [/QUOTE] On May 18th, the NYTimes published [The Long Run – The Story of Obama, Written by Obama](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/us/politics/18memoirs.html?_r=1&sq=obama&st=nyt&oref=login&scp=33&pagewanted=all) (free registration required), which I found very interesting. It says this about his first book: > [@](#): > > …Written at a time when Mr. Obama says he was thinking less about a career in politics than about simply writing a good book, it leaves an impression of candidness and authenticity that gives it much of its power… > … > Mr. Obama’s original plan was to write a book about race relations. But, sitting down to write, he found his mind “pulled toward rockier shores.” So the book became more personal — the record of an interior journey, as he put it in the introduction, “a boy’s search for his father, and through that a search for a workable meaning for his life as a black American.” > … > By the time Mr. Obama landed at Times Books, he had a partial manuscript. He required minimal editing, said Henry Ferris, his editor, who is now a vice president and executive editor at William Morrow. He simply needed guidance in paring and shaping the sections already written and keeping the rest from becoming too long. The writing, Mr. Ferris said, “is very much his own.” The more I find out about him, the more I look forward to him being elected. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2008, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128/120 "2008-05-23T17:22:15Z")
No, that figure is 70 million AMERICANS own guns or 23 percent. I’m positive that in New York the numbers are lower. I haven’t lived here all my life that’s true, but you’re exaggerating things. BTW, this isn’t Rudy’s New York anymore either. How do bodegas even figure into it? That makes no sense at all. I was talking about people who would potentially rob you, not those who use one to protect their business. I’m not going to rob someone trying to take money to the bank, so again, like 99 percent of New Yorkers, I don’t need a gun. You make some points here, but it doesn’t do anything to prove that the average New Yorker wants handguns but can’t get them or carry them. Finally, why are these bodega owners even going to the bank at night? You’ve never worked in a cash business, or at least you’ve never made deposits. If you’re going to wait all week to make the deposit, you sure as hell don’t go at night. There’s no need to. Do it in the daytime. If it’s safe enough to keep the money there all week, why not wait until the next day? Why hold the money all week and decide it has to be done after you close up on the last shift of the week? Makes no sense at all to me. I have made deposits for a bar I used to work for and we did it during the daytime. Kept the money in the safe all week. I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-stop-take-a-deep-breath-and-explain-to-me/450128.md?page=7)