# Obama supporters, answer his lack of experience **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 12, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661 "2008-06-12T06:19:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/141 "2008-06-14T18:42:47Z")
Republican candidates gain valuable real world experience. Democratic candidates have inconsequential menial jobs. That about sum it up? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/142 "2008-06-15T03:25:15Z")
Uh huh. Where did I run down Obama’s experience? And I’m not equating anything. I really don’t see how you can, frankly, and I think people who try get themselves into trouble. The only point I was making was that Reagan’s experience as a lifeguard was perhaps more consequential than a lot of people realize, and made an outsize impact on his life not well understood by simply breezing through biographies. And a lot of what was mentioned in Obama’s writeup Reagan had to contend with on his job as well - he managed money, mediated disputes, kept order, maintained discipline even with people older than him and had to respond to crisis situations. Maybe the scale was different or situations were different. That’s appropriate to note - they aren’t the same job. But when discussing the life path that drove different individuals to seek the White House, it is certainly appropriate to note that one was once a lifeguard and one an organizer. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/143 "2008-06-15T10:07:43Z")
Does this country need 1. More people with teenage beach life-guarding experience such as handling small amounts of money, breaking up fights, keeping order, not being intimidated by older people, and responding to crisis situations or 2. More people who have experience organizing community leadership to develop solutions to problems in education, neighborhood crime, and jobs? Did you pick the lifeguard? Yeah, I’m in a Connie Francis kind of mood. _Everything_ requiring some amount of responsibility molds us. But being a lifeguard is not an executive position. And it is not something that grownups would normally consider as helping to prepare them for the Presidency of the United States. If that job description _did_ count, then how much more should the job description of a stay-at-home-mother’s job description count? She does all of that and much more. **PRR** , welcome back. I liked your post a lot. Good points. You know, though, that Hillary was much more than just a SAHM. I seem to remember something about her working as an attorney on Watergate when she was just out of Yale law school. Did she stop working when Chelsea was born? Being the First Lady of Arkansas would keep her busy. Being First Lady of the United States is a full time job complete with offices and staff. Aside from that, I am an Obama supporter and have been for a long time. I was so overwhelmed by his skills as an orator at the 2004 Democratic Convention that I think that his experience there ought to count for _something._ ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/144 "2008-06-15T10:27:34Z")
The only way that you can get experience as POTUS is by being POTUS. He will be surrounded by experienced intelligent advisors,trying to deny him the office on lack of experience smacks of desperation by his opposition. Maybe his "lack of experience"might bring some fresh thinking and new ideas to his term in office(Assuming he gets elected of course). I am a white Brit and have no dog in this fight but this accusation doesn’t to be a fair argument IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/145 "2008-06-15T13:41:38Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] But when discussing the life path that drove different individuals to seek the White House, it is certainly appropriate to note that one was once a lifeguard and one an organizer. [/QUOTE] But both are left-handed, which is a more important point. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/146 "2008-06-15T17:48:27Z")
[General Wesley Clark explains why John McCain’s military experience doesn’t mean he’s any more qualified than Barack Obama](http://cgi.fark.com/cgi/fark/vidplayer.pl?IDLink=3670879). (embedded video – does not start automatically) > [@](#): > > The truth is that, in national security terms, [John McCain] is largely untested and untried. He’s never been responsible for policy formulation. He’s never had leadership in a crisis, or in anything larger than his own element on an aircraft carrier or [in managing] his own congressional staff. > > It’s not clear that this is going to be the strong suit that he thinks it is. . . McCain’s weakness is that he’s always been for the use of force, force and more force. In my experience, the only time to use force is as a last resort. . . > > When he talks about throwing Russia out of the G8 and makes ditties about bombing Iran, he betrays a disrespect for the office of the Presidency. Much more on the video. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/147 "2008-06-15T17:51:11Z")
Surprisingly, it is for some. My dad has been a little ‘I’m not racist, but I think he has an agenda’. And then I sent him a pic of Obama doing a left-handed layup, and the note that he, like my father, is lefthanded. It didn’t change his mind, but he seems a bit more open now. Amazing what a little self-identification does. Shayna: Yeah, but who trusts Mr. Political General? There is a proper time for use of force. There is a reason the saying is, ‘Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.’ The proper time to use force is almost never the _last_ resort. It’s too late then. Instead, force should be used swiftly, overwhelmingly, and accurately. And with mercy, whenever possible. If things are left to a last resort, mercy is no longer an option. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/148 "2008-06-15T19:31:08Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] If you were to create a resume for your ideal president, what would it look like? You can ask a hundred people and they’d have roughly a hundred different resumes. The job of the office of the President of the United States is like no other job. Sure, a background in law is nice, but I don’t feel that it’s everything. I’m completely fine with Obama’s “lack of experience”. [/QUOTE] I think this would be an interesting exercise. Me, I’d want a prez with a least a few years of real-world experience, as well as executive work. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/149 "2008-06-15T21:34:58Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Surprisingly, it is for some. My dad has been a little ‘I’m not racist, but I think he has an agenda’. And then I sent him a pic of Obama doing a left-handed layup, and the note that he, like my father, is lefthanded. It didn’t change his mind, but he seems a bit more open now. Amazing what a little self-identification does. Shayna: Yeah, but who trusts Mr. Political General? There is a proper time for use of force. There is a reason the saying is, ‘Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.’ The proper time to use force is almost never the _last_ resort. It’s too late then. Instead, force should be used swiftly, overwhelmingly, and accurately. And with mercy, whenever possible. If things are left to a last resort, mercy is no longer an option. [/QUOTE] I would say the judicious use of _some_ force at the right time can prevent having to use _more_ force later. When the US was ready t use force and Saddam believed it, he opened his country to the inspectors again. Unfortunately Bush already planned on invading and it didn’t prevent the mess we have now. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/150 "2008-06-15T21:41:35Z")
[QUOTE=Love Rhombus] I think this would be an interesting exercise. Me, I’d want a prez with a least a few years of real-world experience, as well as executive work. [/QUOTE] Certainly both candidates have at least four years real world experience. Being able to select and manage a good team effectively seems practical as well. Diplomatic and effective communication as well. Grace under fire and pressure another. Sincere intent and quality of character as qualities we’ve placed too little importance on IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2008, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/151 "2008-06-18T03:55:58Z")
I could have sworn that **Fish** likned to a website that listed all of the presidents ranked by historians, then listed the prior experience of each of them, then showed a scattergraph illustrating that there is no correlation between experience and effectiveness. But no matter how I search, I can’t find it. If I’m not out of my mind, can somebody link to it? Thanks, ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/152 "2008-06-19T02:45:40Z")
[QUOTE=Love Rhombus] I think this would be an interesting exercise. Me, I’d want a prez with a least a few years of real-world experience, as well as executive work. [/QUOTE] How’s that been working for us? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/153 "2008-06-19T15:00:20Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Nah, you’ve had your nose rubbed in it often enough that citing it again isn’t going to do any good. It’s quite like **Lightnin’**'s foolishness about how courage and leadership haven’t been shown to be valuable skills. These aren’t serious requests for cites; they’re an attempt to sidetrack a debate about qualities that do not redound to St. Obama’s credit. It’s fine, don’t get me wrong - what else have you got, after all? Obama is black, he’s pretty, he’s a good speaker, and - Did I mention he’s black? Regards, Shodan [/QUOTE] Now being black is an asset which he is using against the downtrodden McCain who had to overcome so much baggage. White and wealthy is a tough way to grow up. Being rich is such a burden. McCain a serial adulterer and flip flopper extraordinaire has overcome so much. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/154 "2008-06-19T15:29:19Z")
I think you’re a few years behind- it was \*the last election \* where flip-flopping was bad and military experience didn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/155 "2008-06-19T16:15:16Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Let’s look at the record… I’m not discerning any clear pattern here. [/QUOTE] Hold the phone there, skippy. Say what you will about Reagan but he got shit done, and acted like a President in the process. Clinton got shit done too, but couldn’t keep his joint in his dockers and with a little help from the pubbies, became a national embarassment. You’re speaking for yourself about Billy. I don’t want him or his wife anywhere NEAR 1600 Penn, thank you. Oh, and as far as the OP, well, I think the “lack” of experience as reported is more blessing than curse. It’s either try and scrub the place clean of the years of corruption and mismanagement, or let the revolution begin. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/156 "2008-06-22T19:24:15Z")
[QUOTE=Rucksinator] I could have sworn that **Fish** likned to a website that listed all of the presidents ranked by historians, then listed the prior experience of each of them, then showed a scattergraph illustrating that there is no correlation between experience and effectiveness. [/quote] You really can’t find it? It’s on page 2 of this very thread, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9898414&postcount=95). I provided no links, but assembled the information myself from Wikipedia. There was no single link that shows all of it, sadly, but all the information is on Wiki. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/157 "2008-06-22T20:06:59Z")
[QUOTE=buttonjockey308] Say what you will about Reagan but he got shit done, and acted like a President in the process. [/quote] Like I said, “to succeed despite idiocy.” ---
**Author:** ![TequilaSunrise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5daacb/32.png) [@TequilaSunrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TequilaSunrise)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/158 "2008-06-22T20:41:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Like I said, “to succeed despite idiocy.” [/QUOTE] I don’t think it’s fair to call anyone who manages to become US President an idiot, really. They’ve managed to become the Leader of the Free World ™, which is far more than I’ve ever accomplished. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/159 "2008-06-23T03:13:38Z")
Well, he was showing distinct signs of Alzheimer’s by the end of his second term. So… yeah, not so good. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661/160 "2008-06-23T03:50:03Z")
The experience issue cuts both ways. I think McCain’s military experience is a serious handicap he will have to address. Many people will regard his diplomatic toolkit as consisting of just a hammer, which makes all problems look like a nail. That, and his single solution for all economic problems seems to be tax cuts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supporters-answer-his-lack-of-experience/452661.md?page=9)