# Obama supports same sex marriage **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 9, 2012, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415 "2012-05-09T19:16:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/81 "2012-05-10T00:54:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [No, I’m a text reader.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/13/obama-once-supported-same_n_157656.html) > > He said the right thing today for the most part and I already gave him the credit for that. That doesn’t mean I have to swallow a bunch of nonsense about what his position always was. He said he was against same sex marriage in 2008 even though he had said before that he supported it. Then he said his position was “evolving,” then he took a series of actions supporting and expanding gay rights by ending DADT and stopping legal support for DOMA, and then we eventually arrived at this juncture. I’m not saying that he’s always held the same position. I’m simply questioning the term “flip flop.” We’ve got 1996, 2008, and 2012. If nothing else, flip flop seems to brief. Might I suggest fffffflllllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip ffffffllllllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooop. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/82 "2012-05-10T01:02:16Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I’m not saying that he’s always held the same position. I’m simply questioning the term “flip flop.” We’ve got 1996, 2008, and 2012. I don’t think there is a time element. I’d rather just call it what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/83 "2012-05-10T01:21:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think there is a time element. I’d rather just call it what it is. Which brings us back to wanting politicians to change their minds and punishing them for it when they do no matter the time frame involved. It makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/84 "2012-05-10T01:30:02Z")
Evolving an opinion is not a flip flop. There is plenty of evidence that this position is a progression of what he believed. He just took the final step that civil unions were an unnecessary category and the term marriage could include same sex couples. He believed gays should marry- he just called it civil unions until now. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/85 "2012-05-10T01:30:11Z")
> [@Rhodes](#): > > Thanks for the suggestion. When I learned about this, I said “okay, he’s got my vote”. But it’d be really cool if tomorrow’s headlines read “Obama endorses same-sex marriage. One million voters donate on Wednesday to his re-election campaign.” My wife just tried to donate a second hundred bucks to Obama’s campaign (in response to this message), but _the server was too slammed by other donators_. Neener neener, **GEEPERS**. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/86 "2012-05-10T01:35:24Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > At the rate we’re going, people will only be electable after brain death. > > Calling this a “flip-flop” is moronic. Flip-flopping is changing your stance for the purpose of political expedience. Since gay marriage is still consistently voted down when put to a vote, this is hardly politically expedient. > > Of course, it’s the people who are against gay marriage who are calling this a flip-flop, so… I love it how liberals get to adopt a different view contrary to what they stated in the recent past in an election year and not be called a flip flopper. Just imagine if Romney did that. …Oh wait. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/87 "2012-05-10T01:39:36Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > This will cost him votes from Hispanic and black voters, which were quite solidly in his favour during the first election. Their support of gay marriage is almost on a par with evangelical Christians. Oh please. That’s complete crap. For starters, yes blacks are significantly more hostile to gay rights than white Americans, Obama would have to do far more than gay marriage to turn them off. Second of all, Hispanics are only slightly less supportive of gay rights than whites and they’re solidly democratic. I guarantee that if anything, Obama does better among Hispanics than he did in 2008, even though McCain had a good reputation amongst Hispanics. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/88 "2012-05-10T01:43:51Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I love it how liberals get to adopt a different view contrary to what they stated in the recent past in an election year and not be called a flip flopper. Just imagine if Romney did that. > > …Oh wait. You seem like a sport. What makes something a change of opinion versus a flip flop? And imagining what would happen if Romney changed his mind on gay marriage is easy. The Mayans put it at the end of their calendars. Apocalypse or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/89 "2012-05-10T01:47:49Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I love it how liberals get to adopt a different view contrary to what they stated in the recent past in an election year and not be called a flip flopper. Just imagine if Romney did that. > > …Oh wait. Flip flop was popularized by the republicans during the 2004 election. It’s not something dems worry about. We like thoughtful politicians who grow as people. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/90 "2012-05-10T02:00:24Z")
I don’t really care about the flip flop. I think it most likely was, but kudos for dropping the politics and just saying he’s for it. I see this as a milestone in the advancement of this issue, when a mainstream politician (and you can’t get any more mainstream than a candidate for president) can come out (pun intended) in support of SSM. I hope this leads to a rash of Democrats supporting it, and maybe, just maybe, a few Republicans (other than Cheney, who doesn’t really count since he’s not in office or running for office). It’s time for the anti side to feel marginalized and to be ashamed of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/91 "2012-05-10T02:11:38Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > Which brings us back to wanting politicians to change their minds and punishing them for it when they do no matter the time frame involved. It makes no sense. I’m describing actions, not “punishing him.” And it looks like he didn’t change his mind on the issue. He changed his view of what was the best stance for him to take politically. I don’t fault Obama alone for that, but I’m not going to pretend up is down just because I think he said the right thing now. > [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Evolving an opinion is not a flip flop. And if I thought his opinion had evolved, I’d say so. I don’t think it evolved. He said he supported same sex marriage in 1996, said he didn’t support it in 2008, and said he supported it in 2012. That’d be two evolutions unless I’ve misunderstood something about this process. Given the other actions he’s taken since being elected, the much more plausible explanation is that this has long been his view and it was only now that he decided it made political sense to say so. > [@](#): > > There is plenty of evidence that this position is a progression of what he believed. His political position unquestionably progressed. There’s no evidence that his opinion on the issue progressed. He’s taken progressive steps toward this announcement, but they don’t reflect an evolving opinion. If you’re suggesting that he was really opposed to gay marriage in late 2008 (while he was campaigning against DADT) and then his opinion _evolved_ to the conclusion that DOMA is not only wrong but unconstitutional in early 2011 and then _evolved_ since then to the conclusion that same-sex marriage should be legal… then I really don’t know what to say. That’s a lot of changes of mind for a very smart, worldly 50-year-old guy who had a lot of other things going on. Nevermind that he only seems to have evolved to a position he held 16 years ago. Why would his opinion have evolved from pro-gay marriage to anti-gay marriage earlier in his career? > [@](#): > > He believed gays should marry- he just called it civil unions until now. Civil unions aren’t marriage. People who are in favor of civil unions only tend to think this is a very important distinction, and people who support gay marriage by that name also think the difference matters. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/92 "2012-05-10T02:16:42Z")
Seriously, does anyone really think Obama would have made this announcement if Biden’s earlier one were met with a firestorm of protest? Let’s give Obama credit for taking a stand, but let’s not be blind to the political reality and pretend he suddenly “evolved” this new stance, which is the same stance he took almost 20 years ago when he was a political unknown. If he wants to come out and explain how he un-evolved his position from 1996 to the one he had in 2008, then we can talk. But until he does that, I’m not buying this version of evolution. It’s more like Intelligent Design. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/93 "2012-05-10T02:16:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t really care about the flip flop. I don’t care much either. But I think we should be able to call it what it is. I’m glad he said it, it’s a milestone, and I think he’s mostly done the right thing here even though I wish it had come sooner. There are some reports that marriage equality will be a plank in the Democratic platform this year, which is huge. There was a thread about that recently and most of us (including me) thought there was no chance it’d happen. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Seriously, does anyone really think Obama would have made this announcement if Biden’s earlier one were met with a firestorm of protest? I think a lot of us are going to spend a lot of time if that was a trial balloon or Biden just going off the reservation. Either way, a lot of progressives who were unenthused about Biden must be feeling a lot better today. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/94 "2012-05-10T02:23:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t care much either. But I think we should be able to call it what it is. I’m glad he said it, it’s a milestone, and I think he’s mostly done the right thing here even though I wish it had come sooner. There are some reports that marriage equality will be a plank in the Democratic platform this year, which is huge. There was a thread about that recently and most of us (including me) thought there was no chance it’d happen. Sure. But the flip flop registers maybe a 2 out of 10 on my outrage meter, and the fact that he made this bold move registers an 11 on my applause meter. This was not an easy thing for him to do, and I give him credit for (finally) taking a leadership position. > [@](#): > > I think a lot of us are going to spend a lot of time if that was a trial balloon or Biden just going off the reservation. Either way, a lot of progressives who were unenthused about Biden must be feeling a lot better today. But it wasn’t just Biden. The Sec of Ed also floated his own trial balloon. Coincidence? In this case, we can honestly say “I think not!” ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/95 "2012-05-10T02:25:03Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > Flip flop was popularized by the republicans during the 2004 election. It’s not something dems worry about. We like thoughtful politicians who grow as people. Highly doubtful and easily debateable, considering: 1. Dems have been calling Romney a flip flopper for months now and 2. Obama comes out in support of SSM in an election year, after facing some pressure within his party to do so and after recent polls have shown SSM proponents outnumber opponents. But yea, his recent change of heart was completely devoid of politics. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/96 "2012-05-10T02:26:52Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > I love it how liberals get to adopt a different view contrary to what they stated in the recent past in an election year and not be called a flip flopper. Just imagine if Romney did that. > > …Oh wait. Good point. You win the debate. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/97 "2012-05-10T02:28:57Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Highly doubtful and easily debateable, considering: > > 1. Dems have been calling Romney a flip flopper for months now and > > 2. Obama comes out in support of SSM in an election year, after facing some pressure within his party to do so and after recent polls have shown SSM proponents outnumber opponents. But yea, his recent change of heart was completely devoid of politics. No evidence of change of heart. He supported the right of gays to form civil unions and was against laws that block SSM. This is an extension of his beliefs, not a reversal. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/98 "2012-05-10T02:42:49Z")
I’m on Obama’s mailing list, and this is the explanation he gave for his change of opinion. > [@Barack Ness Monster](#): > > Today, I was asked a direct question and gave a direct answer: > > I believe that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry. > > I hope you’ll take a moment to watch the conversation, consider it, and weigh in yourself on behalf of marriage equality: > > [http://my.barackobama.com/Marriage](http://my.barackobama.com/Marriage) > > I’ve always believed that gay and lesbian Americans should be treated fairly and equally. I was reluctant to use the term marriage because of the very powerful traditions it evokes. And I thought civil union laws that conferred legal rights upon gay and lesbian couples were a solution. > > But over the course of several years I’ve talked to friends and family about this. I’ve thought about members of my staff in long-term, committed, same-sex relationships who are raising kids together. Through our efforts to end the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy, I’ve gotten to know some of the gay and lesbian troops who are serving our country with honor and distinction. > > What I’ve come to realize is that for loving, same-sex couples, the denial of marriage equality means that, in their eyes and the eyes of their children, they are still considered less than full citizens. > > Even at my own dinner table, when I look at Sasha and Malia, who have friends whose parents are same-sex couples, I know it wouldn’t dawn on them that their friends’ parents should be treated differently. > > So I decided it was time to affirm my personal belief that same-sex couples should be allowed to marry. > > I respect the beliefs of others, and the right of religious institutions to act in accordance with their own doctrines. But I believe that in the eyes of the law, all Americans should be treated equally. And where states enact same-sex marriage, no federal act should invalidate them. > > If you agree, you can stand up with me here. > > Thank you, > > Barack There is no denial that his opinion has changed, or that he previously held a different opinion than the one he expressed today. The progression from supporting civil unions to supporting gay marriage is pretty reasonable in my opinion. I hesitate to call it flip-flopping. The real flip-flopping politicians try to claim that their current position is the one they’ve always held, and they don’t acknowledge that their opinion has evolved. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/99 "2012-05-10T02:53:01Z")
And I just donated. I’d really like to see the “Obama announces support for gay marriage, and sets single-day fundraising record” headline. Probably won’t happen, but we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415/100 "2012-05-10T03:02:53Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Highly doubtful and easily debateable, considering: > > 1. Dems have been calling Romney a flip flopper for months now and No, that’s mostly been Republicans. Democrats have largely been ignoring him until a couple weeks ago. > [@Marley23](#): > > I think a lot of us are going to spend a lot of time if that was a trial balloon or Biden just going off the reservation. Either way, a lot of progressives who were unenthused about Biden must be feeling a lot better today. [Apparently Biden went off the reservation, and the West Wing isn’t too happy](http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0512/76140.html) that his little trip forced Obama to come out of the closet right here and now. It sounds like he was waiting for closer to the convention to drop this golden nugget. So, yes, there was political maneuvering behind his “evolution.” Lawd have muh-cy we have a \*politician \*in the White House! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-supports-same-sex-marriage/621415.md?page=6)