# Obama tells the truth, conservatives cry like little bitches. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 14, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239 "2008-04-14T01:10:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/1 "2008-04-14T01:10:00Z")
Obama said the [following](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/11/clinton-mccain-respond-to_n_96318.html) at a fundraiser last week and righties are up in arms about it. > [@](#): > > You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them…And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. > And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations. Every word of this is true, yet the refrain over the weekend now is that Obama is an “elitist,” for stating the bleeding obvious. Now, it might end up being a political mistake for Obama to have been a little too blunt, but he wasn’t _wrong_, and the objections to his statements aren’t founded in any factual rebuttals but in resentment (or at least upon the hope of _creating_ resentment) of Obama (the candidate with the least personal wealth of the three and the most humble background), is an “elitist.” “Elitist,” of course, is code for “uppity.” The bitching about Obama’s truthful insights into small town bitterness (and the attendant symptoms of religionism, xenophobia and the pathetic machismo of gun culture) is really just anger at the thought that an uppity, Harvard educated black man is looking down his nose at blue collar whites. Actually, I’m not even sure how many blue collar, small town types really feel that way, but the pundits on the political right are certainly trying to _create_ that kind of emotional response. Obama didn’t say anything that wasn’t true. I guess the truth just hurts. It might cost him votes, but that will only prove that he was right. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/2 "2008-04-14T01:13:15Z")
Every word of it is true? No, it isn’t. I know what he wanted to say, and I’m certainly willing to give him a pass on it, but what he did say is inherently dickish. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/3 "2008-04-14T01:23:11Z")
I didn’t actually hear the speech, but as you’ve quoted it there are no qualifiers. It makes it seem like Obama is saying _all_ small-town people from Pennsylvania who lost their good manufacturing jobs 25 years ago are: 1. Religious 2. Xenophobic 3. Gun owners Even if we could assume all three of those things, Obama is making the further assumption that: 1. Any religious person in these Pennsylvania towns _must_ be religious because they are “clinging to religion” to make up for their backwards life and/or fucked up personal financial situation 2. Any gun owner in these towns is “clinging to guns” because of other hardships in life. It basically discounts any possibility that _any_ of these people don’t own guns, discounts the possibility that _some_ of those gun owners might own them for different reasons, that _any_ of them are agnostic/atheist, and that _some_ of these religious people may be religious for other reasons. It’s entirely possible Obama’s original words are more nuanced, as you’ve quoted them here it makes it look like he made a bunch of sweeping statements about a group of people I’m willing to bet my personal net worth he hasn’t done any meaningful research on. I think Obama generalized some stuff that is probably true for a decent segment of a certain part of the population–but that isn’t the same thing as saying “what he said is undeniably true.” If he’d added some qualifiers I would give it a pass. But even then, I seriously doubt Obama has a lot of information on these people so I imagine he’s making a lot of wild-assed generalizations based on common perceptions of people in rural Pennsylvania towns. I’ll be the first to get on board with the idea that many times generalizations are true, but on this forum in particular sweeping generalizations are usually not given a pass unless they are condemnatory generalizations directed towards people on “the other side.” ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/4 "2008-04-14T01:24:34Z")
If he had said something similar about blacks in urban communities, no one would be saying a damn thing. Better yet, if he had pulled a Bill Cosby, everyone would be giving each other high-fives and saying, “Yeah, that Obama is telling it like it is.” But apparently blue-collar white folks are beyond reproach. If you don’t say they’re the salt of the earth, then you get accused of being elitist. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/5 "2008-04-14T01:27:52Z")
Wow, only three posts. Oh, wait, the OP did the race thing already. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/6 "2008-04-14T01:30:29Z")
I’d like to disagree, but that would mean the OP is right. I could agree, but that would show the OP to be right also. What a dilemma. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/7 "2008-04-14T01:31:35Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] It makes it seem like Obama is saying _all_ small-town people from Pennsylvania who lost their good manufacturing jobs 25 years ago are: [/QUOTE] It may make it seem that way, and it was politically stupid of Obama to say it the way he did (plus, his pseudo-apologies have not appeared to me terribly politically strategic either, alas), but his phrasing does not seem to me that different from the ordinary language practice of saying things like “Americans prefer baseball to cricket”. Someone who says that is generally not asserting that every single last American prefers baseball to cricket; he means something a little less strong than that. A level of strength at which I think Obama’s comments, at least regarding anti-trade sentiment, for example, are right on the ball. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/8 "2008-04-14T01:31:36Z")
The truth hurts. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/9 "2008-04-14T01:35:25Z")
Dio, you are seriously not helping your case by saying shit like that. Whether or not it’s true, do you really think it makes anyone more inclined to examine your arguments fairly? Myself, I think he put it poorly, but he’s essentially right. There’re a lot of tensions because of the long-standing economic problems, and that makes itself known in other issues such as the ones he mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/10 "2008-04-14T01:39:00Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] I didn’t actually hear the speech, but as you’ve quoted it there are no qualifiers. It makes it seem like Obama is saying _all_ small-town people from Pennsylvania who lost their good manufacturing jobs 25 years ago are: 1. Religious 2. Xenophobic 3. Gun owners [/quote] He didn’t say _all_ small town people, he said “it’s not surprising” when people start scapegoating others and clinging to cultural identifyers. He didn’t actually use the word “xenophobic” either, although he would have been perfectly correct and justified if he had. I know something about those people. He was right on the money. It might not have been politically smart to be so blunt about it, but that doesn’t mean he was wrong. A lot of blue collar whites absolutely do scapegoat and they absolutely do cling to religion. Nobody knows that better than the GOP. They’ve been playing to those cultural tendencies for decades. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/11 "2008-04-14T01:40:28Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Dio, you are seriously not helping your case by saying shit like that. Whether or not it’s true, do you really think it makes anyone more inclined to examine your arguments fairly? [/quote] It’s a rant, not an argument. That’s why I put it in the Pit instead of GD. I knew I’d be wasting my breath trying to debate it. I’m just lamenting the fact that a candidate can get screwed for telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/12 "2008-04-14T01:41:15Z")
**Captain Carrot** has stated more clearly than I would be able to, my exact thinking on what Obama said. BTW, **Dio** , are you claiming that Hillary is now a conservative? Most of the complaints I’ve heard and seen about Obama’s comments being elitist have been coming from her camp, not McCain’s. Though that may be a matter of selection bias in my local media - NYS leans heavily towards the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/13 "2008-04-14T01:44:29Z")
[QUOTE=OtakuLoki] **Captain Carrot** has stated more clearly than I would be able to, my exact thinking on what Obama said. BTW, **Dio** , are you claiming that Hillary is now a conservative? Most of the complaints I’ve heard and seen about Obama’s comments being elitist have been coming from her camp, not McCain’s. Though that may be a matter of selection bias in my local media - NYS leans heavily towards the Democrats. [/QUOTE] Fox News has been beating the word “elitist” into the ground. Hillary might be doing it too, but she’s desperate, so I give her a pass. I don’t think there’s any question that when Fox News says “elitist” they really mean “uppity.” I find it very discouraging that the tactic might work. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/14 "2008-04-14T01:44:39Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s a rant, not an argument. That’s why I put it in the Pit instead of GD. I knew I’d be wasting my breath trying to debate it. I’m just lamenting the fact that a candidate can get screwed for telling the truth. [/QUOTE] He’s not getting screwed. He’s close enough in the polls that even if he loses 5% from now until the primary he’ll still be in the catbird seat. And it’s not the truth, no matter how much you insist it is. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/15 "2008-04-14T01:45:44Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] He’s not getting screwed. He’s close enough in the polls that even if he loses 5% from now until the primary he’ll still be in the catbird seat. And it’s not the truth, no matter how much you insist it is. [/QUOTE] What did he say that wasn’t true? ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/16 "2008-04-14T01:46:55Z")
[QUOTE=monstro] If he had said something similar about blacks in urban communities, no one would be saying a damn thing. Better yet, if he had pulled a Bill Cosby, everyone would be giving each other high-fives and saying, “Yeah, that Obama is telling it like it is.” But apparently blue-collar white folks are beyond reproach. If you don’t say they’re the salt of the earth, then you get accused of being elitist. [/QUOTE] Actually if you’ve been alive the past few years you’d realize people get in trouble all the time for saying similar things about urban blacks. You do realize Bill Cosby got a lot of grief (along with praise) for some of his comments? ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/17 "2008-04-14T01:49:06Z")
If you don’t hear the question asked first, then it’s easy to misread his answer. I don’t have the exact quote, but my summary of the question asked of Obama was "why were folks in rural PA were resistant to voting in their self interest?’ I took the comments that caused all the hub-bub to be Obama’s answer. The explanation as to why a rural, lower economic level type person would vote for a party that had as their main plank the vow to keep screwing them without vasoline for as long as they could. His answer was because those voters were cynical about anyone helping them, they might as well vote for the guy who was against gay marriage (like them) or against gun control (like them). He talked about those traits in the context of voting for candidates’ positions, not all by themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/18 "2008-04-14T01:49:10Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] And it’s not the truth, no matter how much you insist it is. [/QUOTE] I dunno. I expect people in small towns tend to be both more religious and more xenophobic than people from big cities. Do you think that is false? It has certainly been my experience of small towns. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/19 "2008-04-14T01:50:09Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] Actually if you’ve been alive the past few years you’d realize people get in trouble all the time for saying similar things about urban blacks. You do realize Bill Cosby got a lot of grief (along with praise) for some of his comments? [/QUOTE] Cosby got praise from the same people who are now complaining about Obama. (incidentally, I thought Cosby was largely correct as well). ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239/20 "2008-04-14T01:51:24Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I dunno. I expect people in small towns tend to be both more religious and more xenophobic than people from big cities. Do you think that is false? It has certainly been my experience of small towns. [/QUOTE] But that’s not the claim. It isn’t “This is what some people there are like”, it’s “this is what some people there are like, _and this is why_”. It’s the “why” that people seem to be disagreeing on. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-tells-the-truth-conservatives-cry-like-little-bitches/445239.md?page=2)