# Obama, "The Messiah", "the Great One", "The Perfect Leader", and so on **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 3, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420 "2009-10-03T01:39:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/41 "2009-10-04T07:43:10Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > When Reagan held press conferences, they were short and went to a select subject. His staff was scared shitless of what he would say when he went off script. Whether it was Alzheimers or if he was stupid, I don’t know, but he was a problem to his staff. Teleprompter-less Obama is like his own evil twin. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/42 "2009-10-04T12:33:01Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Teleprompter-less Obama is like his own evil twin. 'Cause, as we all know, Obama’s the first President to use a teleprompter. You know, we’d take you guys a lot more seriously if you ever presented anything other than strawmen as arguments. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/43 "2009-10-04T13:33:48Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > 'Cause, as we all know, Obama’s the first President to use a teleprompter. > > You know, we’d take you guys a lot more seriously if you ever presented anything other than strawmen as arguments. No, Obama isn’t the first President to use a teleprompter. He is certainly however the President most lost without one. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/44 "2009-10-04T13:40:02Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > Teleprompter-less Obama is like his own evil twin. Did you actually say that? He has had long interviews and discussions on anything any one wants to ask. He has even had talk shows hosts asking off the wall questions. he speaks in complete sentences ,has a complete position he states clearly .Your just not used to it after a stumble bum like the Shrub. He went through a debate series with zillions of questions asked and that is where he gathered followers. He made sense . The teleprompter noise is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/45 "2009-10-04T13:47:36Z")
IMHO is is a backhanded way of saying Obama is the Anti-Christ, or the beast. Basically saying he deceived you into voting for the devil himself, and there seems to be overwhelming support for Obama (for those who do support him), which seems very unrealistic in it’s magnitude unless the people are under a trance of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/46 "2009-10-04T13:55:30Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > No, Obama isn’t the first President to use a teleprompter. He is certainly however the President most lost without one. I don’t suppose you’ve got a cite for that? Or is it just something you heard some right-wing commentator make, and you thought it was a nifty thing to pass on? The guy’s written books. He’s a Constitutional scholar. He’s given multiple interviews. What’s your evidence that he’s lost without a teleprompter? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/47 "2009-10-04T14:21:01Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO is is a backhanded way of saying Obama is the Anti-Christ, or the beast. Basically saying he deceived you into voting for the devil himself, and there seems to be overwhelming support for Obama (for those who do support him), which seems very unrealistic in it’s magnitude unless the people are under a trance of some sort. Very reasonably put. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/48 "2009-10-04T15:03:53Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > What’s your evidence that he’s lost without a teleprompter? \ I think the whole Obama = Messiah meme is a deliberate Rovian tactic. Take your opponents strength and attack them head on - spin them into a weakness. Opponent a war hero? Attack his wartime service with lies. Opponent a smart person, great with policy? He’s a nerd, a wonk, out of touch. Opponent has charisma and is popular? He’s blindly worshipped. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/49 "2009-10-04T15:26:58Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > IMHO is is a backhanded way of saying Obama is the Anti-Christ, or the beast. Basically saying he deceived you into voting for the devil himself, and there seems to be overwhelming support for Obama (for those who do support him), which seems very unrealistic in it’s magnitude unless the people are under a trance of some sort. So which is it. Is Obama the anti-christ or the beast ? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/50 "2009-10-04T15:28:34Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Very reasonably put. 😃 Much funnier than the Holy Shit! I was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/51 "2009-10-04T15:32:50Z")
Personally I think Obama kindled the feeling of hope we desperately wanted. Now that we’re down to the hard and often imperfect and ugly work of the real world it’s harder to find that hope. I 2nd the notion that Obama is somewhat shackled by his own party and making concessions to them. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/52 "2009-10-04T16:18:57Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > 'Cause, as we all know, Obama’s the first President to use a teleprompter. > > You know, we’d take you guys a lot more seriously if you ever presented anything other than strawmen as arguments. I dunno who WE are, by the way. He isn’t, of course, but he seems uncomfortable without a script for a conversation. It’s my gut, simply, not my main political belief. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Did you actually say that? He has had long interviews and discussions on anything any one wants to ask. He has even had talk shows hosts asking off the wall questions. he speaks in complete sentences ,has a complete position he states clearly .Your just not used to it after a stumble bum like the Shrub. He went through a debate series with zillions of questions asked and that is where he gathered followers. He made sense . The teleprompter noise is absurd. First, Bush was better at man-on-the-street style conversation than Obama (not that this is necessarily good). Second, since I’m Peruvian I wasn’t watching your former president every single time. Third, a Peruvian politician using a teleprompter wouldn’t get a vote from his mum. I still don’t get how you American are used to having your presidents read their speeches word-by-word written by someone else and then claim that the guy gives good speeches. Last, I’m amused by the level of admiration towards Obama trying to defend him expressed in a thread mocking that same admiration ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/53 "2009-10-04T16:25:59Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I dunno who WE are, by the way. > He isn’t, of course, but he seems uncomfortable without a script for a conversation. It’s my gut, simply, not my main political belief. You realize that Stephen Colbert is not actually a serious commentator, right? > [@](#): > > Originally posted by Stephen Colbert > That’s where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. I know some of you are going to say “I did look it up, and that’s not true.” That’s 'cause you looked it up in a book. So you keep right on trusting your “gut”, and leave those nasty facts to others. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/54 "2009-10-04T17:17:22Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > First, Bush was better at man-on-the-street style conversation than Obama (not that this is necessarily good). > Second, since I’m Peruvian I wasn’t watching your former president every single time. > Third, a Peruvian politician using a teleprompter wouldn’t get a vote from his mum. I still don’t get how you American are used to having your presidents read their speeches word-by-word written by someone else and then claim that the guy gives good speeches. > Last, I’m amused by the level of admiration towards Obama trying to defend him expressed in a thread mocking that same admiration Your first point here is simply your opinion, and stating it does not make it a fact; I strongly disagree with you. Your second point illustrates your lack of detailed knowledge of the matter at hand, which weakens your first point. Thirdly, that is completely irrelevant. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/55 "2009-10-04T17:33:27Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I dunno who WE are, by the way. > He isn’t, of course, but he seems uncomfortable without a script for a conversation. It’s my gut, simply, not my main political belief. > > First, Bush was better at man-on-the-street style conversation than Obama (not that this is necessarily good). > Second, since I’m Peruvian I wasn’t watching your former president every single time. > Third, a Peruvian politician using a teleprompter wouldn’t get a vote from his mum. I still don’t get how you American are used to having your presidents read their speeches word-by-word written by someone else and then claim that the guy gives good speeches. > Last, I’m amused by the level of admiration towards Obama trying to defend him expressed in a thread mocking that same admiration I would debate this if it were not for the fact you have it 100 percent wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/56 "2009-10-04T17:40:37Z")
[40 Classic Bushisms and Gaffes](http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm) The were called Bushisms. Go online and see hundreds of embarrassing remarks by president dingbat. He was terrible . ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/57 "2009-10-04T18:28:29Z")
There is no doubt that both the mockery and the occasional bouts of genuine and spontaneous admiration that inspire some of the mockery come from the same place - Obama’s undoubted charisma and ability to articulate vision. My concern as a non-American is that this charisma and ability will turn out to be Obama’s long suit. So far, his ability to manipulate, charm and dominate a fractious Congress (let alone other world leaders, international bodies, etc.) and get that vision turned into something approximating reality has not, to this casual observer at least, appeared overwhelming. It would appear that people in positions of power regard him as something of a light-weight - a pretty face with a good line and ability to put bums on seats, but ironically enough too nice and earnest to take seriously. The worst case scenario I forsee is that basically very little will get done. This may be a positive insofar as nothing _bad_ will get done. Though it is very early days yet, maybe Obama will pull it off and achieve great things once he hits his stride. If he does not, you can look forward to much mockery of the contrast between the idealistic sloganeering and the meagre results. Of course, if he fails to deliver results, the lion’s share of the blame will be put down to uncooperative congresscritters of his own party and partisan obstructionism on the part of the other party - which will be true enough but also a bit beside the point: what makes a great president is his ability to work the system and get results in spite of faction and friction. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/58 "2009-10-05T02:06:28Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > Oh you mean like liberals called President Bush a Nazi or a thug? :rolleyes: _sigh_ [“Media Push False Equivalency Between Left and Right Rage:”](http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/480199/media_push_false_equivalency_between_left_and_right_rage) > [@](#): > > The thing about liberals is they do this standing naked in a shower and come out merely wet and spluttering. The thing about rightwingers is they work themselves up into a similar rage, strap on a .45 loaded with dum-dums, and go to political meetings screaming that something must be done about Adolf Obama–or maybe write columns seriously suggesting a military coup “to resolve the ‘Obama problem.’” > > And whenever someone points out that the rhetoric on the right could lead to actual violence (as it has, um, a time or two in American history), the Republicans either call you “shameless,” “a disgrace,” or “dangerous,” as House speaker Nancy Pelosi was when she tearfully recalled the deaths of George Moscone and Harvey Milk, or they call you “a nutjob,” as RNC chief Michael Steele tagged New York Times columnist Tom Friedman, who wrote that the vitriol out there reminds him of the days just before Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated. > > Look, I don’t want to whitewash all the left’s overheated rhetoric. Antiwar demonstrators carried signs depicting George Bush as Hitler, too (maybe a few more at European demos than at American ones, but still, it happened), and the British fictional documentary Death of a President did stage an assassination of Bush. But when it comes to dangerous rhetoric, any media-borne equivalency between conservatives and liberals is transparently ridiculous. > > And not just when Maria Bartiromo (the CNBC anchor who apparently doesn’t know you have to be 65 to qualify for Medicare) says (around 4:30) that corporate-sponsored townhall craziness is “exactly what is happening on the other side. I mean, who’s directing [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org)?” As soon as polls started coming in showing that Tea Baggery has made the GOP look like a bunch of loons and driven away the center, the Republicans set off on a mad scramble through their Googles to find even the dimmest suggestion of liberal excess against the Bushies to provide a Fair’n’Balanced fig leaf. But it’s pretty thin stuff, compared to signs reading “Bury Obamacare with Kennedy” and “We Came Unarmed–This Time.” Right now, the Republican leadership is actively pushing the idea that Florida Rep. Alan Grayson’s saying the GOP health plan is “Don’t get sick and if you do, die quickly,” is identical to South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson’s shouting “You lie!” during President Obama’s health care address to a joint session of Congress. > > Can the party that has been screaming about “death panels” for months get away with outrage over a very similar criticism of their refusal to do anything about health reform at all? Probably not, but it isn’t hard to see why they feel they need to. > > Right, left, center, we all have rage and can lash out–verbally, at least–when we believe our way of life or deeply held beliefs are threatened. But by and large, lefty rage (at least the non-Euro kind) rarely goes beyond the shower curtain. We want the right to be proved wrong (as, indeed, recent political and economic events have shown them to be), in the belief that evidence and logic will help justice to prevail. They, on the other hand–and especially since a black man was elected president–are filled with an exclusionary zeal. They don’t want to prove anything about the left so much as they want it removed, defunded, delegitimized, kept off the screen. In a word, killed. It is only the RW, lately, [that has been guilty of “eliminationism.”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533537) ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/59 "2009-10-05T18:41:32Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You realize that Stephen Colbert is not actually a serious commentator, right? > So you keep right on trusting your “gut”, and leave those nasty facts to others. …and Stephen Colbert is relevant how? Did I bring him up? …and the facts you have presented are? I said “gut” because it’s a simple feeling with no deep analysis. I’d be more than willing to change my mind. IT’s really not a big thing for me. > [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Your first point here is simply your opinion, and stating it does not make it a fact; I strongly disagree with you. Your second point illustrates your lack of detailed knowledge of the matter at hand, which weakens your first point. Thirdly, that is completely irrelevant. > :rolleyes: But I stated my opinion and did not claim it as fact, only as opinion, I can’t see the problem. Thanks for reiterating my point. Next time, you’ll have to pay royalties. Irrelevant..nice word, comparing how politicians in other places do speeches with how they do it in the US while discussing making speeches. Maybe irrelevant doesn’t mean what you think it does. Did I say it was the mother of all facts? > [@gonzomax](#): > > I would debate this if it were not for the fact you have it 100 percent wrong. Of course, you can also not debate if I have it 100% right. > [@gonzomax](#): > > [http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm](http://politicalhumor.about.com/cs/georgewbush/a/top10bushisms.htm) The were called Bushisms. Go online and see hundreds of embarrassing remarks by president dingbat. He was terrible . I didn’t say Bush was a paradigm-shifting speaker who’d make Cicero cut his tongue in shame. I feel, bushisms and all, that he was more comfortable speaking at eye-level than Obama. Obama kick his ass both ways in a more formal setting. * * * So, unless it’s \*Obama teh r0xx0r and Bush teh suxx0r \*there’s nothing else we can say about the president of the US. Isn’t this just making the “Messiah” point? The ability to speak in public settings, both formal and informal, are not a reflection on the person’s ability to lead a country, so even if Bush was/were a better man-on-the-street speaker it would say anything good about his presidency. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420/60 "2009-10-05T20:10:12Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > But I stated my opinion and did not claim it as fact, only as opinion, I can’t see the problem. > Thanks for reiterating my point. Next time, you’ll have to pay royalties. > Irrelevant..nice word, comparing how politicians in other places do speeches with how they do it in the US while discussing making speeches. Maybe irrelevant doesn’t mean what you think it does. Did I say it was the mother of all facts? Please show me where you clarified it as your opinion. It is common practise here to quote a refutable point posited by another member; I’m happy that you’re content with your own smugness. Your third point was irrelevant, and I stand by that; instead of snidely deriding me, please explain how a Peruvian would vote has any relevance at all within this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-the-messiah-the-great-one-the-perfect-leader-and-so-on/512420.md?page=4)