# Obama to announce Afghanistan policy in speech Tuesday 12/01/09 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552 "2009-12-01T03:00:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/41 "2009-12-02T01:55:44Z")
He sent 17,000 in February. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/42 "2009-12-02T01:59:18Z")
Fox News is predictably pissing all over it. Their talking point from GOP headquarters appears to be to say that it “wasn’t the kind of speech Churchill would have given” (how many of those did Bush give?), and to whine and carp that he set up a timetable. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/43 "2009-12-02T02:03:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fox News is predictably pissing all over it. I’m watching MSNBC and they’re pissing all over it. Predictably? I’m underwhelmed. Good luck in getting anything done in 18 months. I’m left wondering what took him so long to make this decision. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/44 "2009-12-02T02:05:32Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > A pledge that he is keeping with this speech tonight. So what’s your problem? It took him 4 months to make a decision. He can fly to DEN to sign legislation nobody read but he can’t listen to the people he hired to do the job correctly. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/45 "2009-12-02T02:06:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > …Good luck in getting anything done in 18 months. I’m left wondering what took him so long to make this decision. So you think its a bad decision, but you wish he had made it sooner? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/46 "2009-12-02T02:07:40Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So you think its a bad decision, but you wish he had made it sooner? Where did I say I wished he made it sooner? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/47 "2009-12-02T02:08:22Z")
Maybe he actually wanted to make sure he knew what he was doing? Three months is not a long time to make a decision like this, especially since he already sent 17,000 troops earlier this year, and since there was no request for any more troops to be sent before next year. We’ve seen what happens when brain pickled cowboys make decisions from the “gut.” There’s nothing wrong with a President actually trying to take the time to understand what the fuck he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/48 "2009-12-02T02:12:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Maybe he actually wanted to make sure he knew what he was doing? Three months is not a long time to make a decision like this, especially since he already sent 17,000 troops earlier this year, and since there was no request for any more troops to be sent before next year. > > We’ve seen what happens when brain pickled cowboys make decisions from the “gut.” There’s nothing wrong with a President actually trying to take the time to understand what the fuck he’s doing. False dichotomy. I don’t see anything creative in this decision. McKristal asks for 40k and he gives him 30k. Brilliant!! This is what most people have been predicting for months. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/49 "2009-12-02T02:17:26Z")
What does “creative” have to do with anything? The issue isn’t being "creative, the issue is making a decision between A, B and C, and, more importantly, making sure the decision is _correct_. That’s not something that can be determined without a lot of research, discussion and thought. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/50 "2009-12-02T02:22:59Z")
If he had come up with something creative, I could understand why it took so long. This is management 101-- give your people a little less than what they ask for since you know they sandbagged a bit in their request. I’m underwhelmed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/51 "2009-12-02T02:28:52Z")
Once again, why is “creativity” a criterion? It wasn’t a fucking art project. He wasn’t asked to create anything. It was basically a yes or no decision, and it wasn’t a decision to be made lightly. He wasn’t ordering salad dressing. It required some extremely complex analysis. ---
**Author:** ![cn8of10](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c57346/32.png) [@cn8of10](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cn8of10)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/52 "2009-12-02T02:37:15Z")
I think this could work on the timetable set if the objective was only a section of Afghanistan. The speech was pitch perfect, as usual. I think he said all the things that needed to be said. I’m glad he made the point of the fiscal impact of this endeavour. A trillion dollars already spent and now another 30 billion per year. Wars are expensive. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/53 "2009-12-02T02:40:39Z")
I’m just sort of middling whelmed, if that. And I cannot depend on judging just how much of that is a deep-seated bias against war as a solution. But just for starters, I much prefer to hear such news in tones of gravity and somber necessity, without the traditional trumpets and drums. I’m sick to death of hearing those _goddam!_ drums… And I don’t wonder what took so long, I figure he was thinking. A refreshing change. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/54 "2009-12-02T02:41:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Once again, why is “creativity” a criterion? It wasn’t a fucking art project. He wasn’t asked to create anything. It was basically a yes or no decision, and it wasn’t a decision to be made lightly. He wasn’t ordering salad dressing. It required some extremely complex analysis. You’re right. It took a lot of extremely complex analysis to make the decision everyone knew he would make from day 1. I want creativity from my president. I want him to think outside the box. And I don’t know why you’re cheering this, since you didn’t even want to invade Afghanistan in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/55 "2009-12-02T02:43:35Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I want creativity from my president. I want him to think outside the box. :rolleyes: Didn’t we have more than enough of that from BushCo? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/56 "2009-12-02T02:43:59Z")
It’s not like it would be an immediate, instant withdrawal in 18 months, by the way. Just the beginning of a graduated draw down that would be spaced (if I recall correctly) over another 5 years. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/57 "2009-12-02T02:45:15Z")
Killing foreigners: IOKIYAD Ooh, does this mean we get to flip it all around? When do we get to start calling people chickenhawks and keyboard warriors again? Why doesn’t Obama send his two daughters over there? etc. I’m so excited. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/58 "2009-12-02T02:47:22Z")
Are the rules of engagement being modified, or are we just sending 30,000 more targets? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/59 "2009-12-02T02:52:33Z")
So what’s the betting on when McChrystal comes back asking for the next 30-40,000, next summer? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552/60 "2009-12-02T02:53:36Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Are the rules of engagement being modified, or are we just sending 30,000 more targets? We now have to marandize them before shooting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-announce-afghanistan-policy-in-speech-tuesday-12-01-09/519552.md?page=4)