# Obama to Palestinians: "No short cuts" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068 "2011-09-21T14:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/1 "2011-09-21T14:49:26Z")
Obama, you spineless, whining picture boy. You may be POTUS but only in form. You work from the script. And the script was written before you got elected. You just made sure you’ll follow the script best. What a disgrace to the office and the country. [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/no-short-cut-to-mideast-peace-obama-says-on-palestinian-bid-for-statehood/article2174354/](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/no-short-cut-to-mideast-peace-obama-says-on-palestinian-bid-for-statehood/article2174354/) ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/2 "2011-09-21T15:00:01Z")
When come back, bring coherence. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/3 "2011-09-21T15:03:37Z")
Meh. I’m not feeling the outrage burn, but mostly because I expected little else from any President. The US is too enmeshed with Israel to not veto a resolution about Palestinian statehood. “The script” indeed. That said, and while I am very disappointed at the underlying message, none of the quoted statements by Obama are wrong. A UN resolution wouldn’t fix much beyond giving the Palestinians a bit more international credibility, and only when Israel and Palestine both decide that the situation needs fixing will they fix it. Obama is meeting with both Netanyahu and Abbas directly, apparently to try to move the negotiations forward again. Both will claim to want peace but on their own terms. And we’ll go around and around and around again. ---
**Author:** ![Abe\_Babe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3ab097/32.png) [@Abe\_Babe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe_Babe)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/4 "2011-09-21T15:08:17Z")
From having read only the first half of the article, I don’t disagree with anything he’s said or the administration is doing. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/5 "2011-09-21T15:08:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That said, and while I am very disappointed at the underlying message, none of the quoted statements by Obama are wrong. A UN resolution wouldn’t fix much beyond giving the Palestinians a bit more international credibility, and only when Israel and Palestine both decide that the situation needs fixing will they fix it. Completely agree. The UN could, and maybe should, recognize Palestine but it won’t result in everyone holding hands and singing in the street. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/6 "2011-09-21T15:10:10Z")
Lame OP. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/7 "2011-09-21T15:11:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > That said, and while I am very disappointed at the underlying message, none of the quoted statements by Obama are wrong. The truthfulness of any statement is confirmed in the world of assumptions and predicted behaviour of factors that keep assumptions such as they are. Therefore, Obama’s statements are not wrong because he will keep assumptions, or in other words, the system in which they are true, exactly in a state that makes his statements true. So, yes, I agree with you in that. My point would be that the underlying set of assumptions supporting those statements can no longer be held to be obvious truths. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/8 "2011-09-21T15:13:51Z")
> [@Abe\_Babe](#): > > From having read only the first half of the article, I don’t disagree with anything he’s said or the administration is doing. Question then for you - do you recognize country of Israel? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/9 "2011-09-21T15:17:43Z")
And, for crying out loud, UN is setup for exactly situations where two parties that are supposed to resolve the issue are unable to do so. Yeah, that UN bitch was good in 1948 but not so good in 2011. What changed? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/10 "2011-09-21T15:19:08Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > When come back, bring coherence. When come out of basement, bring awareness of what’s going on around you. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/11 "2011-09-21T15:23:47Z")
I am aware that whatever the President says or does, you will be motivated (and fortunately, not always motivated) to start a thread or otherwise complain. That the thread will be just a collection of right-wing talking points that Obama Sucks, devoid of any additional content or contribution, should be taken as a given. Maybe you should just stay in your basement and let adults post criticisms of your boogeyman. At least Fox spends a few minutes writing their spook stories to add some measure of content. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/12 "2011-09-21T15:24:01Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > The truthfulness of any statement is confirmed in the world of assumptions and predicted behaviour of factors that keep assumptions such as they are. > > Therefore, Obama’s statements are not wrong because he will keep assumptions, or in other words, the system in which they are true, exactly in a state that makes his statements true. > > So, yes, I agree with you in that. > > My point would be that the underlying set of assumptions supporting those statements can no longer be held to be obvious truths. Holy crap, how do you keep from boring yourself to death? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/13 "2011-09-21T15:24:10Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > And, for crying out loud, UN is setup for exactly situations where two parties that are supposed to resolve the issue are unable to do so. > > Yeah, that UN bitch was good in 1948 but not so good in 2011. > > What changed? The fact that “Palestine” is split between two feuding entities and neither has any ability to control its territory or each other? Just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/14 "2011-09-21T15:26:16Z")
When an alliance forces you to act contrary to your interests maybe it’s a good time to rewrite the contract. With the Arab Spring still blowing, that veto makes the same sound as a lit match. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/15 "2011-09-21T15:30:25Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > The truthfulness of any statement is confirmed in the world of assumptions and predicted behaviour of factors that keep assumptions such as they are. > > Therefore, Obama’s statements are not wrong because he will keep assumptions, or in other words, the system in which they are true, exactly in a state that makes his statements true. > > So, yes, I agree with you in that. > > My point would be that the underlying set of assumptions supporting those statements can no longer be held to be obvious truths. I don’t know if I agree with you because I’m not sure what you mean. There are legitimate geopolitical reasons for the US to continue to support Israel, which are reinforced by powerful pro-Israel lobbies. Were Obama to come out publically against Israel, even in a banal talking shop environment such as the UN, it would have serious repercussions across the Middle East in that it would imply a weakened position for Israel, and embolden Israel’s (and America’s) enemies in the region. The fact that it would also hurt Obama at home doesn’t help either. So he can’t come out against Israel. Israel knows this, of course, and thus happily ignores any pleas by the US to maybe stop being such dicks to the Palestinians and genuinely work towards peace. And since Palestine is such a hot mess of competing factions, many of which are not overly fond of the US, our influence there is minimal as well. Again, this is not a new situation so I’m not sure what you feel has changed to a sufficient degree to allow the current government to act in a dramatically different manner to previous ones. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/16 "2011-09-21T15:32:53Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > When an alliance forces you to act contrary to your interests maybe it’s a good time to rewrite the contract. With the Arab Spring still blowing, that veto makes the same sound as a lit match. You make that sound like a threat - that Obama should act, not because he thinks the UN vote is a good idea on its own merits, but because otherwise the US faces an explosion of Arab anger. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/17 "2011-09-21T15:34:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > There are legitimate geopolitical reasons for the US to continue to support Israel, This is one of the assumptions that makes the world we live in and that hold Obama’s statements true. Point of my theoretical blabbering in a post earlier was that this is no longer self-evident truth. There are no longer geopolitical reasons to support Israel. There was not before Arab Spring. Now, even less. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/18 "2011-09-21T15:35:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > You make that sound like a threat - that Obama should act, not because he thinks the UN vote is a good idea on its own merits, but because otherwise the US faces an explosion of Arab anger. Oh, please… ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/19 "2011-09-21T15:36:56Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Oh, please… The imagry is yours. > [@](#): > > With the Arab Spring still blowing, that veto makes the same sound as a lit match. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/20 "2011-09-21T15:36:58Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > And, for crying out loud, UN is setup for exactly situations where two parties that are supposed to resolve the issue are unable to do so. > > Yeah, that UN bitch was good in 1948 but not so good in 2011. > > What changed? Fayyed would certainly disagree. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068.md?page=2)