# Obama to Palestinians: "No short cuts" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068 "2011-09-21T14:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/21 "2011-09-21T15:41:42Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Holy crap, how do you keep from boring yourself to death? Yeah, well, I may not be the most articulate poster here having English as a 3rd language so pardon me that sophisticated sensibilities of yours met an extra coarse blabberings of mine this morning. Sometimes to get a point even in a poorly written piece intelligence plays a crucial role. It is a tool that stitches said piece together. Not everyone has it. When lack of intelligence is combined with malice a very special person is being exposed to us. So, thank you for your insignificant input. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/22 "2011-09-21T16:29:36Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > And, for crying out loud, UN is setup for exactly situations where two parties that are supposed to resolve the issue are unable to do so. > > Yeah, that UN bitch was good in 1948 but not so good in 2011. > > What changed? Do you really not know what changed in the UN between 1948 and today? Really? [bauhaus] Elanor Roosevelt’s Dead…[/bauhaus] Did it ever occur to you that Obama actually wants to do what’s best for Israel, (which also happens to be what’s best for the US) and bring about a negotiated peace with land swaps, and that this will be more difficult if the UN recognizes Palestine? ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/23 "2011-09-21T16:35:22Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > [bauhaus] Elanor Roosevelt’s Dead…[/bauhaus] I am SO bookmarking this to resurrect as a zombie… ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/24 "2011-09-21T17:00:20Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > I am aware that whatever the President says or does, you will be motivated (and fortunately, not always motivated) to start a thread or otherwise complain. That the thread will be just a collection of right-wing talking points that Obama Sucks, devoid of any additional content or contribution, should be taken as a given. > > Maybe you should just stay in your basement and let adults post criticisms of your boogeyman. To be fair, newcomer is: -a Truther who thinks that Israel was somehow connected to 9/11, -a willfully ignorant anti-Israel fanatic -probably mildly mentally retarded But I don’t recall him being particularly right-wingy. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/25 "2011-09-21T17:03:50Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > The truthfulness of any statement is confirmed in the world of assumptions and predicted behaviour of factors that keep assumptions such as they are. I truly hope that statements like this are less baffling before you translate them from whatever language your brain operates in. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/26 "2011-09-21T17:05:08Z")
[quote=“saoirse, post:22, topic:597068”] (..) what’s best for Israel, (which also happens to be what’s best for the US) How’s that even remotely possible? How’s building illegal settlements “best for US”? It’s “best” compared to what? > [@saoirse](#): > > and bring about a negotiated peace with land swaps, and that this will be more difficult if the UN recognizes Palestine? Dont you get tired repeating that? How would you even know? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/27 "2011-09-21T17:27:27Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Yeah, well, I may not be the most articulate poster here having English as a 3rd language so pardon me that sophisticated sensibilities of yours met an extra coarse blabberings of mine this morning. Well, if you’re actually posting through babelfish that explains a lot. But really, I was just referring as much to your obsession with the subject as to your simultaneously pretentious and incoherent writing style. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/28 "2011-09-21T17:51:09Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > You make that sound like a threat - that Obama should act, not because he thinks the UN vote is a good idea on its own merits, but because otherwise the US faces an explosion of Arab anger. How can you separate a wider Arab reaction, and its implications for the US, from evaluating whether recognising Palestinian statehood is a good idea or not? Are you seriously saying that American foreign policy makes no reference to the wider context within which events are happening? ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/29 "2011-09-21T18:26:05Z")
> [@](#): > > At the request of the American Embassy and Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, Mr. Netanyahu urged dozens of members of Congress visiting Israel last month not to object to the aid, according to Congressional and diplomatic officials. [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/world/middleeast/house-gop-finds-a-growing-bond-with-netanyahu.html?\_r=1&hp](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/world/middleeast/house-gop-finds-a-growing-bond-with-netanyahu.html?_r=1&hp) The great US of A has to tell foreign PM to ask US representatives to hold their horses 😃 How do you say “banana republic” in English? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/30 "2011-09-21T18:42:20Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > How do you say “banana republic” in English? Er… “banana republic”. That said, I’m reminded of the line from The Princess Bride. Why do you keep using this word? Do not think it means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/31 "2011-09-21T18:49:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Er… “banana republic”. > > That said, I’m reminded of the line from The Princess Bride. > > Why do you keep using this word? Do not think it means what you think it means. I’m always amazed at how people find the least relevant item (in this case, quite a lame attempt at self-referential joke) in my posts to comment on. How about you opine on Mrs. Clinton having to ask Netanyahu to tell US Congressmen not to oppose White House? Isn’t that absurd or what, huh? Who knows - maybe that’s how it should be only some of us find out a bit later. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/32 "2011-09-21T19:12:11Z")
So, if you had to round to the nearest 10, how many times were you dropped on your head as an infant? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/33 "2011-09-21T19:30:30Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > How can you separate a wider Arab reaction, and its implications for the US, from evaluating whether recognising Palestinian statehood is a good idea or not? Are you seriously saying that American foreign policy makes no reference to the wider context within which events are happening? So you are saying that there is a threat, and one the US ought to take seriously? As to your questions - yes, I can very easily seperate the inherent merits of a proposal to the people involved, from a threat if the proposal isn’t carried through to the liking of the person making the threat. Can’t you? Take this statehood issue as an example. I think a UN declaration is a bad idea from everyone’s perspective, purely on a pro and con reading. Undertaking something that is a bad idea purely because otherwise people will be pissed at you is a bad idea. For one, it overlooks the fact that people are gonna be pissed at you, and blame you, if the bad idea turns out to have been a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/34 "2011-09-21T19:51:44Z")
This is what I’d ask Obama… Imagine for a second, a Civil Rights Movement years and POTUS at that time saying “There is no shortcut to Civil Rights. African-Americans must find accommodation with their white oppressors in southern States.” Imagine if integration would be possible in southern States without Federal Government involvement and decisive action? Imagine if someone at that time asked “Do African-Americans deserve rights?” Or, more pointedly, “How can we give Civil Rights to African-Americans who might also have sympathy for militaristic groups such as Black Panthers?” I wonder what MLK would say about this… ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/35 "2011-09-21T20:07:52Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > This is what I’d ask Obama… > > Imagine for a second, a Civil Rights Movement years and POTUS at that time saying “There is no shortcut to Civil Rights. African-Americans must find accommodation with their white oppressors in southern States.” Umm… they did. MLK thought they were wrong, and changed their minds. Thing is, no one was launching rockets into Birmingham. Also, Dr. King approached desegregation having already acknowledged Alabama’s right to exist. Finally, as the solution to that problem is integration, I fail to see how it applies to creating a viable Palestinian state. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/36 "2011-09-21T21:05:11Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > [QUOTE=Gyrate] > > There are legitimate geopolitical reasons for the US to continue to support Israel,This is one of the assumptions that makes the world we live in and that hold Obama’s statements true. Point of my theoretical blabbering in a post earlier was that this is no longer self-evident truth. There are no longer geopolitical reasons to support Israel. There was not before Arab Spring. Now, even less. [/QUOTE] President Obama is still dancing around the fact that his ME policy is dictated to him from Tel Aviv & Jerusalem. It’d be nice if he just said so outright, but that is something he is not permitted. Similarly, it’d decades since there was any rational basis for the US taking Israel’s side. Now it’s largely doggedness. For instance we often have the discussion: How would the USA be impacted if Israel simply slid into the sea without a whisper? It’s not part of the permitted mythology for this question to be rationally discussed. This is because the answer is that two things would occur. The US would thrive; and it would prosper. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/37 "2011-09-21T21:15:16Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > President Obama is still dancing around the fact that his ME policy is dictated to him from Tel Aviv & Jerusalem. It’d be nice if he just said so outright, but that is something he is not permitted. > > Similarly, it’d decades since there was any rational basis for the US taking Israel’s side. Now it’s largely doggedness. For instance we often have the discussion: How would the USA be impacted if Israel simply slid into the sea without a whisper? It’s not part of the permitted mythology for this question to be rationally discussed. This is because the answer is that two things would occur. The US would thrive; and it would prosper. So then you believe that US foreign policy is controlled by this Jewish cabal located in “Tel Aviv and Jerusalem”? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/38 "2011-09-21T21:17:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > You make that sound like a threat - that Obama should act, not because he thinks the UN vote is a good idea on its own merits, but because otherwise the US faces an explosion of Arab anger. I don’t think that’s **Capitaine** ’s point at all. On the contrary: the Arab spring changed the picture, possibly made the new Arab states more likely to accept Israel. But Washington OTOH is still playing by the old book, the one where Arab states were run by self-appointed, Israel hating tyrants who are going to use the UN to use the UN to bully Israel. It’s a brave new world out there. Or possibly, not. But you gotta try, unless you’re adamant on making the new world into the old one. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/39 "2011-09-21T21:24:19Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t think that’s **Capitaine** ’s point at all. On the contrary: the Arab spring changed the picture, possibly made the new Arab states more likely to accept Israel. But Washington OTOH is still playing by the old book, the one where Arab states were run by self-appointed, Israel hating tyrants who are going to use the UN to use the UN to bully Israel. > It’s a brave new world out there. Or possibly, not. But you gotta try, unless you’re adamant on making the new world into the old one. Is Egypt one of these “new Arab states”? Having an angry crowd of protesters sacking the Israeli embassy as the staff flee the country is an interesting way to show “acceptance”. :dubious: Indeed, relations between Egypt and Israel are worse than they have ever been since the peace accord. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/40 "2011-09-21T21:42:24Z")
Crowds are always and have always been retarded. I bet I could get an American crowd to sack an Israeli embassy tomorrow if I set my heart on it. It’s wholly unfair to judge a disorganized, chaotic state by mob reactions. Especially considering they didn’t have half a point in the matter - Israel did cross into sovereign land. They might have had their reasons, and it might have been justified or whatever - I don’t want to hear any of that. All I know is, if Belgian troops had crossed over into France and shot up some French troops just because a French citizen crossed into Israel, blew shit up and came back, I… well, I wouldn’t give a shit, admittedly. But I know some French would ! Sovereignty is supposed to mean something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068.md?page=3)