# Obama to Palestinians: "No short cuts" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068 "2011-09-21T14:49:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/41 "2011-09-21T21:47:19Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Obama, you spineless, whining picture boy. > > You may be POTUS but only in form. You work from the script. And the script was written before you got elected. You just made sure you’ll follow the script best. > > What a disgrace to the office and the country. > > [http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/no-short-cut-to-mideast-peace-obama-says-on-palestinian-bid-for-statehood/article2174354/](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/no-short-cut-to-mideast-peace-obama-says-on-palestinian-bid-for-statehood/article2174354/) :dubious: OK, this ain’t GD . . . But for this kind of Pitting, you should at least make it clear whether you’re for Palestinian statehood or against it, or whether you’re Pitting Obama for reasons essentially irrelevant to that issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/42 "2011-09-21T21:54:49Z")
At least this whole kerfuffle has allowed the Republicans to shamelessly pander to the Jewish vote, [as noted in the NYT](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/21/world/middleeast/house-gop-finds-a-growing-bond-with-netanyahu.html?_r=1&hpw) this morning, thus providing the rest of us with endless amusement for this news cycle. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/43 "2011-09-21T22:26:55Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The fact that “Palestine” is split between two feuding entities and neither has any ability to control its territory or each other? > > Just a guess. I think this is worth repeating. When was the last time Abbas visited Gaza? Extra points if anyone can say when he plans his next visit? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/44 "2011-09-21T23:06:47Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Similarly, it’d decades since there was any rational basis for the US taking Israel’s side. Well, it is supposed to be of value to have at least one Western-oriented democracy in the MENA . . . But, at the moment, I cannot think of any specific instance or manner in which our alliance with/patronage of Israel has been of any strategic or economic advantage to the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/45 "2011-09-21T23:10:50Z")
Although it is completely unsurprising that Obama says what he says in regard to Israel, given the uselessness in finding a path toward partition and bad PR the current government of Israel gives the US in the Mideast, it’s a good idea to entertain re-evaluating our relationship. Especially as it becomes more clear that the Arab Spring will result in potentially friendly, secular, democratic regimes. We don’t have to go all cold Turkey on them but fuck 'em what does that country do for us? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/46 "2011-09-21T23:18:19Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Although it is completely unsurprising that Obama says what he says in regard to Israel, given the uselessness in finding a path toward partition and bad PR the current government of Israel gives the US in the Mideast, it’s a good idea to entertain re-evaluating our relationship. Especially as it becomes more clear that the Arab Spring will result in potentially friendly, secular, democratic regimes. We don’t have to go all cold Turkey on them but fuck 'em what does that country do for us? One word: Rapture. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/47 "2011-09-21T23:20:56Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > We don’t have to go all cold Turkey on them but fuck 'em what does that country do for us? Let’s see.. What good stuff came out of Israel that US uses every day? off the top of my head: Drip irrigation Unmanned Aerial Vehicles Flash drives ICQ and later AOL IM The medical stent technology Voice Mail technology Computer Firewall technology Data Compression Algorithms that you use every day Cherry Tomatoes Solar Water Heaters Windows NT Operating System Intel 8088, Pentium MMX, Pentium 4 and Centrino chips Beta-interferon VoIP ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/48 "2011-09-21T23:25:02Z")
Mmmm. Cherry tomatoes. The stuff from Intel would have come from Intel whether they had the facilities in Israel or not. Dov Frohman worked at Intel US before he got them to start up operations in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/49 "2011-09-22T00:14:11Z")
Through all the hand waving and excuses I’m still not sure what the case is to prevent Palestine’s nationhood. > [@](#): > > “Peace depends upon compromise among peoples who must live together long after our speeches are over, and our votes have been counted,” Mr. Obama said. “That is the path to a Palestinian state.” Agreed, how does Palestine becoming a nation prevent that? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/50 "2011-09-22T00:32:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > One word: Rapture. Jesus Christ I wish they’d get it over with already then. > [@Terr](#): > > Let’s see.. What good stuff came out of Israel that US uses every day? > > off the top of my head: > > Drip irrigation > Unmanned Aerial Vehicles > Flash drives > ICQ and later AOL IM > The medical stent technology > Voice Mail technology > Computer Firewall technology > Data Compression Algorithms that you use every day > Cherry Tomatoes > Solar Water Heaters > Windows NT Operating System > Intel 8088, Pentium MMX, Pentium 4 and Centrino chips > Beta-interferon > VoIP This is a list, but seriously, big deal. I wonder if anyone else on the planet would ever possibly think of sticking a solar panel on a drum of water? Then there is the fact that AMD is better than Intel, and everyone knows it. Maybe UAVs are impressive, but Iran makes UAVs too so probably not. I’d tear this list of apart more, but it’s hardly worth the effort because even if I am objectively wrong about the value of these contributions, it doesn’t change my point because we acquired this shit by trade, not by being BFFs. > [@Sitnam](#): > > Through all the hand waving and excuses I’m still not sure what the case is to prevent Palestine’s nationhood…Agreed, how does Palestine becoming a nation prevent that? I wish somebody would explain that to me. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/51 "2011-09-22T00:39:26Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Through all the hand waving and excuses I’m still not sure what the case is to prevent Palestine’s nationhood. There’s the slight problem of the parliament being controlled by Hamas, which is considered a terrorist organization by the European Union, Canada, the U.S., Israel, and Japan. Hell, even Jordan banned them. Giving a terrorist organization its own sovereign state isn’t exactly considered a path to peace. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/52 "2011-09-22T00:39:29Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > And, for crying out loud, UN is setup for exactly situations where two parties that are supposed to resolve the issue are unable to do so. > > Yeah, that UN bitch was good in 1948 but not so good in 2011. > > What changed? In case you forgot, the Arabs rejected the partition plan and went to war instead. They lost. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/53 "2011-09-22T01:09:31Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > There’s the slight problem of the parliament being controlled by Hamas, which is considered a terrorist organization by the European Union, Canada, the U.S., Israel, and Japan. Hell, even Jordan banned them. Giving a terrorist organization its own sovereign state isn’t exactly considered a path to peace. Ireland and Northern Ireland have Sinn Féin. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/54 "2011-09-22T01:59:47Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > When an alliance forces you to act contrary to your interests maybe it’s a good time to rewrite the contract. With the Arab Spring still blowing, that veto makes the same sound as a lit match. I would _love_ to see the Arab Spring come to Palestine. It’d start with disaffected, underemployed, tech-savvy youth realizing that the thugs in charge serve no purpose (indeed, that they serve solely their own, negative, purposes), and Hamas and Fatah members would soon swing from lampposts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/55 "2011-09-22T02:04:26Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > Do you really not know what changed in the UN between 1948 and today? Really? [bauhaus] Elanor Roosevelt’s Dead…[/bauhaus] > > Did it ever occur to you that Obama actually wants to do what’s best for Israel, (which also happens to be what’s best for the US) and bring about a negotiated peace with land swaps, and that this will be more difficult if the UN recognizes Palestine? Wait, what?! How will that make it **more** difficult?! ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/56 "2011-09-22T02:07:54Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Although it is completely unsurprising that Obama says what he says in regard to Israel, given the uselessness in finding a path toward partition and bad PR the current government of Israel gives the US in the Mideast, it’s a good idea to entertain re-evaluating our relationship. Especially as it becomes more clear that the Arab Spring will result in potentially friendly, secular, democratic regimes. We don’t have to go all cold Turkey on them but fuck 'em what does that country do for us? I don’t see that the result of the Arab spring is “friendly, secular, democratic regimes”. I see more confrontation with Israel and therefore, with the US. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/57 "2011-09-22T02:09:10Z")
[http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/images/palestine\_page.img\_assist\_custom-640x388.jpg](http://www.weeklystandard.com/sites/all/files/images/palestine_page.img_assist_custom-640x388.jpg) Look on the map on that symbol. Do you see “two states” there? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/58 "2011-09-22T02:09:45Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > I don’t see that the result of the Arab spring is “friendly, secular, democratic regimes”. It will be in Libya, almost certainly. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/59 "2011-09-22T02:14:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It will be in Libya, almost certainly. Bookmarked. So I can point and laugh in a couple of years. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068/60 "2011-09-22T03:54:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It will be in Libya, almost certainly. I most sincerely hope you’re right, but I don’t beleive it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-palestinians-no-short-cuts/597068.md?page=4)