# Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 26, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475 "2009-02-26T03:45:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/261 "2009-02-27T22:28:33Z")
A question: would the AWB cover [Carbine conversion kits](http://www.mechtechsys.com/), which turn an ordinary semi-automatic pistol into [A Scary-Looking Gun](http://www.mechtechsys.com/images/Photo%201C%20-%20CCU%20Glk(small).jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/262 "2009-02-27T22:32:19Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Imports made after the ban could be sold? My cite says “no”. > What cite are you offering to support your claim? From that big [PDF](http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf) by the Department of Justice we have been using here. On page 1 (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > The ban exempts AWs and LCMs manufactured before September 13, 1994. At > that time, there were upwards of 1.5 million privately owned AWs in the U.S. and > nearly 25 million guns equipped with LCMs. Gun industry sources estimated that > there were 25 million pre-ban LCMs available in the U.S. as of 1995. \*\*An > additional 4.7 million pre-ban LCMs were imported into the country from 1995 > through 2000, with the largest number in 1999. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/263 "2009-02-27T22:34:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And I have to say you having a gun, to me, is a de facto threat in my book. You may be the nicest and gentlest person in the world. But how do I know that? What if we get into an argument? What if you are having a really bad day and lose your temper (happens to everyone)? I am reasonably certain even on your bad days you would not shoot anyone without a serious and imminent threat but can I be 100% certain? By default your having a gun tips the scales in your favor should, for whatever reason, we be at odds with each other. Gee, it’s a good thing cops never commit domestic assault, or get in bar fights, or commit rape, or decide someone has “dissed” them. How fortunate we are that they are so much more trustworthy than your average citizen. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/264 "2009-02-27T22:40:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > From that big [PDF](http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf) by the Department of Justice we have been using here. On page 1 (bolding mine): Well, that admittedly seems to be in violation of the spirit of the law, if nothing else. Very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/265 "2009-02-27T22:41:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > From that big [PDF](http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf) by the Department of Justice we have been using here. On page 1 (bolding mine): That was standard practice those days. I got in on some group buys on Glock and AK mags from outside of the country. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/266 "2009-02-27T22:43:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > … In short, I think making it so fewer shots can me made almost has to show a decrease in the number of people shot. Hard to imagine how it could be otherwise. So you are now suggesting the limit to be six? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/267 "2009-02-27T22:44:31Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Gee, it’s a good thing cops never commit domestic assault, or get in bar fights, or commit rape, or decide someone has “dissed” them. How fortunate we are that they are so much more trustworthy than your average citizen. :rolleyes: When did I say I didn’t find a cop threatening too? In fact I do find them threatening to an extent. Yeah they are there to protect me but I am always ultra respectful and nice to police no matter how much they are being an ass to me (has happened). In their case though not so much because they can shoot me (although they could of course) but because they can arrest me or otherwise make my life miserable. Again, it comes to having an undue amount of power over another. A weapon in one person’s hands tips that balance. I do not want to over state this. I am not all freaked out but the imbalance exists and if I am aware you have a gun I won’t forget it and it will change how I respond to you to a greater or lesser degree. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/268 "2009-02-27T22:47:14Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Well, that admittedly seems to be in violation of the spirit of the law, if nothing else. Very interesting. Some of my favorite gun accessories are my LE/Gov use only marked mags and my similarly marked AR. They remind me of how stupid the .gov can be. A lot of those mags that were imported had been stamped with manufacture dates prior to the ban. Whether those dates were accurate or not is questionable. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/269 "2009-02-27T22:47:18Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > So you are now suggesting the limit to be six? I suggested that number yes but of course all things are open to discussion. I also noted perhaps rifles could have a 10-shot mag as an idea and pistols 6. More a toss it out there thing rather than married to it though. Mostly just noting what you said that decreasing from 12 to 10 is hardly a big deal and not likely to be effective. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/270 "2009-02-27T23:02:34Z")
If you are really serious about it, just ban detachable mag fed guns and be done with it. Of course, you’d just see that the majority of guns used in crimes would just switch over to wheel guns though. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/271 "2009-02-27T23:12:26Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > If you are really serious about it, just ban detachable mag fed guns and be done with it. Of course, you’d just see that the majority of guns used in crimes would just switch over to wheel guns though. I’d be happy to see all guns become single shot but I know that’d never fly (and ignoring the practical aspects of seeing it made that way). I am not inconsistent in my views but there is that pesky 2nd Amendment to contend with and obviously rather excitable gun owners who would pop a blood vessel at the thought. So it seems wise to suggest things that would make a difference and not be too onerus on gun owners. You won’t see me ranting that bayonet clips on guns be removed for instance (I mean really, has anyone bayoneted anyone ever in the US during the commission of a crime?). ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/272 "2009-02-27T23:31:38Z")
And I would like to see most gun control legislation currently on the books to be gone. Looks like we are the bookends that hold up the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/273 "2009-02-27T23:37:55Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > And I would like to see most gun control legislation currently on the books to be gone. Ack! Do you really want to remove legislation that prevents ex-cons and the clinically insane from purchasing a gun? Surely there are a few good restrictions out there even a gun owner can get behind. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/274 "2009-02-28T01:41:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Not sure I am following the problem you mention Sorry, my fault, I wasn’t terribly clear. My argument is that people who made a 100% legal purchase shouldn’t be required to spend additional money to convert their legal property into another form lest they become federal felons. I’d also say that manufacturers shouldn’t be forced to pay for that either as the products they sold were legal when sold. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/275 "2009-02-28T02:02:30Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’d have no problem with some sort of sunset clause in the legislation. Set some metrics (and ensure the means to track that data exists), set a timeframe and set a bar that says if the LCM regulation did not meet the specified goals it goes out the window. I’m very glad to hear you feel that way. Can I take it you support the repeal of any and all gun control laws which did not significantly reduce crime? ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/276 "2009-02-28T02:13:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ack! > > Do you really want to remove legislation that prevents ex-cons and the clinically insane from purchasing a gun? > > Surely there are a few good restrictions out there even a gun owner can get behind. There are a few, I said most, not all. Violent felons and those adjudicated mentally insane have no business owning guns. Non violent felons who serve their complete sentences should have the opportunity to have their gun rights restored. They have paid their debt to society, so they should be treated as such. I don’t have a problem with the 4473 form or the current NICS background checks. As a responsible owner/seller, I’d love to see the NICS checks opened up to the general public. I don’t have a problem with the restrictions on full auto guns, but I have a real issue with the ban on new full auto guns that was passed in 1986, and I don’t think states should be able to add their own restrictions to the federal laws. The AOW/NFA classification is a joke and should be dismantled, and I’d trade mandatory NICS between individuals to make it happen. Mandatory meaning a go or no go decision would have to be recorded, but no serial numbers or anything else would need to be recorded. There’s a heaping helping of reasonable for you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/277 "2009-02-28T04:16:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And if I am getting raped in an alley (I’m male) the rapist almost certainly has a gun pointed at my head (that or Salma Hayek is forcing herself on me but then I’d shoot you if you stopped her ;)). Sir, if it was Salma, I’d kindly wait in line. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Point is having guns available means they are available to bad guys as well as good guys. So we seek ways to try to limit bad people having them without unduly frustrating the good people who want one. > > And I have to say you having a gun, to me, is a de facto threat in my book. You may be the nicest and gentlest person in the world. And I can respect that. Particularly given our difference in location…especially if you were raised there or a similar environment. I think we all tend to see ‘the other side’ as something of an enigma–I suppose I’ve had a gun in my hand since about age 6 or so. Other folks just weren’t raised around them, and I can dig that. I was going to make the point about the police, too, but that one’s been made and rebutted. Idunno, I guess I just feel different; guns strike me as a comforting presence. Less so if a bad guy has one and no good guy does, but I can at least see where you’re coming from. Regardless, I’m glad you thoughtfully considered my post and responded to it. I tend to lurk–particularly in religious or political threads–because I’m usually in the minority on the Dope, but I’ve seen some of your other posts and figured we could engage in a friendly way. > [@](#): > > FYI: I live in Chicago (says so near my post count :D) I used to have mine up, but I think it’s gone now. I’m in NE Texas, FWIW. Believe it or not, I’m closer to you geographically than I am to El Paso. I’ve been through Chicago on the train several times, but never got to experience it. Course, my CHL is invalid in Illinois, so I’d feel kinda naked, but one of these days the wife and I plan to do the tourist thing (she’s from Valpo, Indiana.) Anyway, good talking with you. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/278 "2009-02-28T04:46:28Z")
> [@BrandonR](#): > > What I don’t get about the latest threats of a AWB is that Americans are supposed to give up their constitutional rights to help out Mexico? Huh? Hell no. If they are too weak, too corrupt, or just too stupid to deal with it, they can pay for that, not us. The White House should tell them to go pound sand. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/279 "2009-02-28T05:03:07Z")
I don’t understand the benefit to banning higher capacity magazines. They can, with ease, be manufactured in a garage (to be reliable). ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475/280 "2009-02-28T05:08:52Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > I don’t understand the benefit to banning higher capacity magazines. > > They can, with ease, be manufactured in a garage (to be reliable). Because regardless of its effectiveness, it makes people feel like they are doing something, regardless of whose rights are being infringed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-to-seek-new-assault-weapons-ban/487475.md?page=15)