# Obama, traitor
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 10, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680 "2009-12-10T02:43:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/21 "2009-12-10T13:22:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> With weasel words in hand, he calls the president a traitor. “Aid and comfort” aren’t just words-- they’re one of the ways the constitution defines treason.
>
> Well, here’s a royal fuck you, Cheney. I defended the charges of treason against you and those in Bush’s administration on this MB in the past, so now I’m pissing on your parade when you pull the same crap.
I agree. I think it’s a defensible opinion to say something as vague as “this encourages Al Qaeda” or even “this is great for Al Qaeda,” because both of those are commentary on the secondary effects of the actions taken. But to choose to use the specific words “aid and comfort” knowing, as he surely does, that they are a term of art describing treason, is absolutely wrong and an insult to the office of the President. Yes, he got tarred with that same brush, and no, that gives him zero justification to go waving it around at others. Extremely poor showing, Mr. Cheney.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/22 "2009-12-10T14:16:13Z")
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> Alan Grayson, one of the few Democrats in Congress worth a damn, said it best:
I just saw that on the news. Not sure that adds substance to the debate, but I sure laughed my ass off!
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/23 "2009-12-10T14:50:29Z")
Chris Matthews doesn’t know what “STFU” means? Explains a lot.
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/24 "2009-12-10T15:02:20Z")
> [@statsman1982](#):
>
> Does he honestly think that waterboarding the guy 100 + times and keeping him locked up in Gitmo indefinitely _doesn’t_ incite further hatred against the U. S.?
From Cheney’s point of view, the problem isn’t that we waterboarded him, it is that some lib’ruls let it be known that he was waterboarded. If the waterboarding was still secret, then who would get mad at the US, hmmm? And even if people get mad at the US, fuck them.
What a statesman.
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> Alan Grayson, one of the few Democrats in Congress worth a damn, said it best:
I have criticized Grayson in the past as being a clown, but this made me smile.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/25 "2009-12-10T15:11:20Z")
I think what really bothers and scares Cheney is that it’s going to come out that the reason for the waterboarding wasn’t to try to get information, but to try to get them to say that Iraq as involved with 9/11, and that Cheney himself was the one who ordered it done.
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### Author:  [@Peanut\_Gallery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanut_Gallery)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/26 "2009-12-10T15:12:53Z")
On trial for heinous crimes, facing at minimum life in prison = aid and comfort. Can we aid and comfort bin Laden some time soon? Did Cheney allow Saddam to be aided and comforted? I recall quite a lot of ranting during his trial. I expect the prosecutors are rather hoping the accused will get up in court and hang himself with his own words. Does Cheney think KSM is going to convert Americans to jihad with a speech at his trial? Is there something new he could say to rile up his own followers? I’m open to the criticism that the whole thing could be thrown out (thanks to Dick policies), but what’s the point of the soap-box argument?
Oh yeah! … they lost the election … that’s the point, as usual.
Cheney’s tears are truly the sweetest. I look forward to enjoying more of them over the next 3-7 years.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/27 "2009-12-10T15:15:01Z")
Cheney continues to be an apologist, and likely will until he draws his last breath. If KSM and the others are tried, convicted, and sentenced, it will be a triumph of some American ideals and a failure for how Bush handled the issues of indefinite detention, rendition, and torture (all of which will be given prominent display during the trial).
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/28 "2009-12-10T15:30:29Z")
You know, he seems like a douche _now_, but I bet we’ll all be looking pretty stupid if KSM manages to turn the judge, jury, court reporter and baliffs into _jihadis_.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/29 "2009-12-10T15:31:07Z")
Ditto what **Bricker** said. I agree that the NYC trial is a horrible idea, and may well in the long run prove a boon to Al Qaeda. But implying that this was what the admin intended, and using the specific language of treason is deeply wrong.
On a human level, I can understand that those who get it done to them want to give tit-for-tat. That doesn’t make it right.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/30 "2009-12-10T15:36:02Z")
Howe the fuck is it going to be a "boon to _al Qaeda_? What is aQ going to able to do after a trial that it couldn’t do before?
Does anyone think that the defendants are going to be persuasive in any hypothetical rants against the US?
If anything, showing that we follow a rule of law and give even “terrorist” suspects due process might have a marginally cooling effect on anti-US sentiment.
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/31 "2009-12-10T15:38:41Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> Aw, let’s be nice to Dick. I say we buy him a dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts every day. And maybe get him some ‘desk toys’ for his office. You know, jack-in-the-boxes and such.
And get him a nice [screensaver](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knUQSnTVVPU) for his computer.
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### Author:  [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/32 "2009-12-10T15:39:01Z")
Why, oh why, do they keep interviewing him? He never says anything worth hearing, it all sounds like sour grapes, and he is too far from innocent of wrongdoing to be criticizing anyone.
Why is his opinion on the news at all?
I don’t care what the dick thinks, stop putting in the media like it matters already!
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### Author:  [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/33 "2009-12-10T15:39:02Z")
> [@Hamlet](#):
>
> Cheney continues to be an apologist, and likely will until he draws his last breath. If KSM and the others are tried, convicted, and sentenced, it will be a triumph of some American ideals and a failure for how Bush handled the issues of indefinite detention, rendition, and torture (all of which will be given prominent display during the trial).
How many people are currently being held? How many were released again?
Yet, once again it it simply…
BUSH.
You guys don’t want to or you never will get it. It is politics as normal. Obama isn’t groundbreaking, heroic or any other label you want to provide for him, other than ‘political’.
Is he slick? Sure as hell is and that is why he is a good politician. (oxymoron)
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/34 "2009-12-10T15:41:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#):
>
> I think what really bothers and scares Cheney is that it’s going to come out that the reason for the waterboarding wasn’t to try to get information, but to try to get them to say that Iraq as involved with 9/11, and that Cheney himself was the one who ordered it done.
No more calls; we have a winner!
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/35 "2009-12-10T15:45:39Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Ditto what **Bricker** said. I agree that the NYC trial is a horrible idea, and may well in the long run prove a boon to Al Qaeda. But implying that this was what the admin intended, and using the specific language of treason is deeply wrong.
>
> On a human level, I can understand that those who get it done to them want to give tit-for-tat. That doesn’t make it right.
Why is a NYC trial a horrible idea? It’s the only proper venue.
> [@Kearsen](#):
>
> How many people are currently being held? How many were released again?
> Yet, once again it it simply…
>
> BUSH.
I fail to see how it’s Obama’s fault if Bush had all these people locked up and didn’t bother to have anyone document _why_ they were being locked up. Now somebody has to go back and figure it out.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/36 "2009-12-10T16:01:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Why is a NYC trial a horrible idea? It’s the only proper venue.
Well, since the hijackers boarded at Logan, _maybe_ Boston would have a claim to jurisdiction.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/37 "2009-12-10T16:03:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Why is a NYC trial a horrible idea? It’s the only proper venue.
Not so much the in-NYC part, but I think the trial itself is a bad idea. For one thing, much of the evidence usable against him is likely to have been generated by, um, “non-traditional” methods; a trial that admits this evidence into court generates precedent for future cases. For another, I don’t think a show trial with a predetermined outcome (both the pres and AG have said in advance that KSM will be convicted) does much to make us look like a beacon of justice; just the opposite.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/38 "2009-12-10T16:05:50Z")
It could hardly make us look worse than holding him indefinitely. Anyway, there’s a big difference between evidence gained via torture (obviously inadmissible) and evidence gained via traditional methods in a non-traditional setting- ie., wartime (grey area).
I highly doubt they’d be putting him on trial if they couldn’t put him away using only “clean” evidence.
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### Author:  [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/39 "2009-12-10T16:06:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> Why is a NYC trial a horrible idea? It’s the only proper venue.
>
> I fail to see how it’s Obama’s fault if Bush had all these people locked up and didn’t bother to have anyone document _why_ they were being locked up. Now somebody has to go back and figure it out.
So in three years when they are still being held your answer won’t change?
Bush, Bush, Bush.
If I got s much bush at home as I get here, I’d never leave home.
I don’t know whether or not trying this guy is a good idea, NY or not.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/40 "2009-12-10T16:09:08Z")
If they’re still being held in three years my answer will certainly change.
What else are they going to do with him? They can’t keep him locked up forever and they can’t execute him _without_ trying him.
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