# Obama, traitor
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 10, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680 "2009-12-10T02:43:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/41 "2009-12-10T16:09:27Z")
> [@Kearsen](#):
>
> Obama isn’t groundbreaking, heroic or any other label you want to provide for him, other than ‘political’.
Your mileage may vary, but the main reason I voted for him was because he wasn’t a Republican. We’d already seen what eight years of Republican rule could do, and I was afraid of what they’d do if they figured they’d never be held responsible.
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### Author:  [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/42 "2009-12-10T16:11:25Z")
> [@Kearsen](#):
>
> If I got s much bush at home as I get here, I’d never leave home.
I hope your relationship situation changes for the better someday.
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### Author:  [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/43 "2009-12-10T16:14:31Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#):
>
> I hope your relationship situation changes for the better someday.
Not to further de-rail but shoot me a PM and we can discuss!!
🙂
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### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/44 "2009-12-10T16:28:11Z")
Isn’t interesting that the “tough guys” of the Republican party and their mouthpieces on the public airwaves are the ones that seem the most scared of what terrorists might do in a trial and if it is held in NYC and also have the least faith in the US Justice system. These guys really have a comical view of how mastermindedly th terrorists are and how utterly incapable the US is of handling these guys.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/45 "2009-12-10T16:30:59Z")
According to Dick Cheney, everything Democrats do, from trying terrorists in criminal courts to not washing their hands properly after taking a piss, gives comfort to the enemy. These comments are only news because he happened to say them this week.
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### Author:  [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/46 "2009-12-10T16:43:35Z")
Once you accept that Cheney’s one and only interest in the United States of America is the power and profit he can gather for himself and his friends, this sort of stuff starts to make a lot more sense. Just over a year ago Cheney believed that saying anything negative about the sitting administration was treasonous; now he believes that saying anything about the last administration is treasonous. Is there a pattern? He and his henchmen had a really good run with very little restraint or oversight for 8 years and it’s probably hard to get used to the idea that it is over. Worse, the very idea that some of what they were up to might come to light is probably pretty scary.
So, I support Dick’s right to spew forth whatever crap he wants. He may like to piss on the constitution but I don’t. His dislike of Obama has helped turned me from lukewarm to a fan of our new Pres.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/47 "2009-12-10T16:49:59Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Not so much the in-NYC part, but I think the trial itself is a bad idea.
What’s the alternative?
> [@](#):
>
> For one thing, much of the evidence usable against him is likely to have been generated by, um, “non-traditional” methods;
Holder says they have enough clean evidence to convict. Nothing from torture has to come in. Nothing useful was acquired from the torture anyway.
> [@](#):
>
> a trial that admits this evidence into court generates precedent for future cases.
It won’t be admitted.
> [@](#):
>
> For another, I don’t think a show trial with a predetermined outcome (both the pres and AG have said in advance that KSM will be convicted) does much to make us look like a beacon of justice; just the opposite.
And how does putting them in a hole forever with no charges or trial make us look?
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### Author:  [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/48 "2009-12-10T17:01:02Z")
Terrorists are criminals. The proper way to deal with them is to hunt them down, arrest them, and try them. Then sentence them.
How else do you deal with criminals? They are nothing more than the mafia.
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### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/49 "2009-12-10T17:04:45Z")
> [@shiftless](#):
>
> So, I support Dick’s right to spew forth whatever crap he wants.
See, what bothers me most about this, is if you follow Cheney’s logic, he’s saying that allowing your enemies to speak publicly should be prevented. The logical basis of his reasoning requires no extrapolation at all to imagine how he would handle his political enemies if he had any real power. After all, all he’s objecting to is that people will hear what KSM has to _say_. Seriously, what does this say about Cheney’s view of the Bill of Rights?
Not that KSM should have all the rights that you and I have; the only point I’m making is that Cheney thinks muzzling oppositional speech is a good idea.
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### Author:  [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/50 "2009-12-10T17:07:02Z")
Tossing around unwarranted charges of treason is fascism.
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### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/51 "2009-12-10T17:15:54Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Not so much the in-NYC part, but I think the trial itself is a bad idea. For one thing, much of the evidence usable against him is likely to have been generated by, um, “non-traditional” methods; a trial that admits this evidence into court generates precedent for future cases.
That makes the um, “non-traditional” methods of gathering evidence the problem, not the trial.
> [@](#):
>
> For another, I don’t think a show trial with a predetermined outcome (both the pres and AG have said in advance that KSM will be convicted) does much to make us look like a beacon of justice; just the opposite.
You think carrying on with the Bush/Cheney plan of kidnap and torture makes you look better?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/52 "2009-12-10T17:32:40Z")
> [@Kearsen](#):
>
> I don’t know whether or not trying this guy is a good idea, NY or not.
The question is, do you think that giving this guy a trial is “aiding and abetting the enemy”, or is Cheney an idiot for saying this?
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/53 "2009-12-10T17:37:16Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> The question is, do you think that giving this guy a trial is “aiding and abetting the enemy”, or is Cheney an idiot for saying this?
False dichotomy. Cheney ain’t no idiot. He knows exactly what he’s doing. Which is much, much worse.
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### Author:  [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/54 "2009-12-10T17:39:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> The question is, do you think that giving this guy a trial is “aiding and abetting the enemy”, or is Cheney an idiot for saying this?
Oh, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Cheney was an idiot. Like I said though, it’s all political.
Can I make a Christmas Wish for some highly publicized, middle class, non-politically motivated persons to run for elected positions, namely Congress and the Presidency?
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/55 "2009-12-10T17:40:41Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#):
>
> That makes the um, “non-traditional” methods of gathering evidence the problem, not the trial.
Maybe so, but at this point there’s nothing Obama can do about that.
> [@](#):
>
> You think carrying on with the Bush/Cheney plan of kidnap and torture makes you look better?
I think we’re better off following the precedent of Nuremburg and having military tribunals; there was criticism of them at the time, too, but I think they were the best option.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/56 "2009-12-10T17:46:57Z")
When did the Nazis bomb New York City? The Nuremberg tribunals were convened because there was no clear choice of venue and no easy way to resolve the issues of extranational jurisdiction involved.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/57 "2009-12-10T17:50:51Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> When did the Nazis bomb New York City?
[Boon] Forget it, he’s rolling.[/Boon]
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### Author:  [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/58 "2009-12-10T17:57:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> Aw, let’s be nice to Dick. I say we buy him a dozen Krispy Kreme doughnuts every day. And maybe get him some ‘desk toys’ for his office. You know, jack-in-the-boxes and such.
This is very sweet of you to suggest, and I like where you’re going with this, but I think a better idea might be to bring him garlicky food and expose him to natural sunlight.
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### Author:  [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/59 "2009-12-10T17:59:24Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Ditto what **Bricker** said. I agree that the NYC trial is a horrible idea, and may well in the long run prove a boon to Al Qaeda.
How in fuck did you come up with _this_ bullshit?
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/60 "2009-12-10T18:19:31Z")
> [@elbows](#):
>
> Why, oh why, do they keep interviewing him? He never says anything worth hearing, it all sounds like sour grapes, and he is too far from innocent of wrongdoing to be criticizing anyone.
>
> Why is his opinion on the news at all?
'Cause Dick Cheney is America’s stuffed mascot of the W. Bush era. Check this out:
[Dick Cheney](http://blog.pennlive.com/pennsyltucky/2008/01/AP080123017792.jpg)
[Mad panda](http://www.egilpaulsen.com/blog/wp-content/mad_panda_detail.jpg)
Stranger
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