# Obama, traitor
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [December 10, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680 "2009-12-10T02:43:26Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/81 "2009-12-11T01:43:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> Isn’t that a little masturbatory?
Haven’t got an idea how I vote, do you?
---
### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/82 "2009-12-11T01:45:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Well, you know what they say about truth being the ultimate defense.
Again, brainless partisanship. It’s okay when we do it, 'cause we’re pure and righteous! Our team good! Their team bad! Yay us! Group hug and circle jerk!
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/83 "2009-12-11T01:45:54Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Haven’t got an idea how I vote, do you?
I was mostly commenting on the mindless part. “They’re both equally bad.” is the sort of thing a person who doesn’t want to bother knowing the facts says.
---
### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/84 "2009-12-11T01:49:50Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> I was mostly commenting on the mindless part. “They’re both equally bad.” is the sort of thing a person who doesn’t want to bother knowing the facts says.
Or someone who does know plenty of facts, and who sees plenty of dishonest, venomous bullshit being churned out by both sides, with two different sets of morons lapping it up.
---
### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/85 "2009-12-11T01:54:06Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Or someone who does know plenty of facts, and who sees plenty of dishonest, venomous bullshit being churned out by both sides, with two different sets of morons lapping it up.
Which side has the venomous bullshit factory on overdrive right now? How many sitting congresspeople made accusations of facism, murder panels and the fall into tyranny during the last administration?
There are loons on both sides, you are correct. The difference is, that they are in charge on the right.
And seriously if you can’t understand the difference between “betrayed us” and “aid and comfort to our enemies” you may not be as smart as you think you are. 😃
---
### Author:  [@El\_Gui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Gui)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/86 "2009-12-11T01:56:43Z")
Great Rant John Mace.
I find your consistency very admirable.
(no, that’s not sarcasm)
---
### Author:  [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/87 "2009-12-11T01:58:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> There are militias in several states, but the Michigan Militia operated only in Michigan and is now defunct anyway.
>
> McVeigh briefly flirted with the MM, but decided it wasn’t for him, mostly because they did too much talking and not enough blowing things up.
[http://www.michiganmilitia.com/](http://www.michiganmilitia.com/) Defunct?
[http://detnews.com/article/20090416/OPINION03/904160398/Anger-boils-among-Michigan-militia-members](http://detnews.com/article/20090416/OPINION03/904160398/Anger-boils-among-Michigan-militia-members) Defunct?
---
### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/88 "2009-12-11T02:02:31Z")
I betrayed Tammy Sue when I told her that my affections weren’t primarily sexual when, really, they were. Not a nice thing to do, but I expect she got over it by now. Now, if I had known that such betrayal might rise to the level of treason, I might have given the matter more thought.
---
### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/89 "2009-12-11T02:10:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> How many sitting congresspeople made accusations of facism, murder panels and the fall into tyranny during the last administration?
Off the top of my head, I can think of about a half-dozen. The party out of power is always the craziest.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/90 "2009-12-11T02:11:23Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> Or someone who does know plenty of facts, and who sees plenty of dishonest, venomous bullshit being churned out by both sides, with two different sets of morons lapping it up.
You just don’t have a clue do you? Keep running around bleating “Both bad! Both bad!”
You probably think that a brain tumor and a headache are pretty much the same thing. “They’re both in your head and they both hurt!!! Bleat!!!”
---
### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/91 "2009-12-11T02:17:10Z")
> [@lissener](#):
>
> See, what bothers me most about this, is if you follow Cheney’s logic, he’s saying that allowing your enemies to speak publicly should be prevented. The logical basis of his reasoning requires no extrapolation at all to imagine how he would handle his political enemies if he had any real power. After all, all he’s objecting to is that people will hear what KSM has to _say_. Seriously, what does this say about Cheney’s view of the Bill of Rights?
>
> Not that KSM should have all the rights that you and I have; the only point I’m making is that Cheney thinks muzzling oppositional speech is a good idea.
Yes, that’s also what strikes me the most about the quote. Forget accusing Obama of treason, that’s small fry compared to the gist of his argument.
---
### Author:  [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/92 "2009-12-11T02:19:24Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> and fuck you.
Reminder:
[QUOTE=Restricted Language in the Pit]
The following expressions should not be directed at other posters.
* * *
fuck you
[/QUOTE]
[Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858)
No warning issued.
**Gfactor**
Pit Moderator
---
### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/93 "2009-12-11T02:21:02Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> You just don’t have a clue do you? Keep running around bleating “Both bad! Both bad!”
>
> You probably think that a brain tumor and a headache are pretty much the same thing. “They’re both in your head and they both hurt!!! Bleat!!!”
Har har, yup, ya got me, I’m just a big dum galoot. I don’t have the smarts to see that one side is full of brainless sycophants and the other is all sages. If only I had the smarts to see everything in black and white!
---
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/94 "2009-12-11T02:25:11Z")
I guess I’ll have to deal with this post seriously.
> [@furt](#):
>
> Are you completely serious here? You _really_ believe the Dick Cheney is just as bad as Osama Bin Laden?
bin Laden’s actions resulted in the loss of some lives, and the destruction of some property. I will not minimize the tragedy of the loss of life, but to suggest that the abandonment of the principles that we as Americans hold dear is not more damaging to the country is ludicrous.
> [@furt](#):
>
> Gore said Cheney’s boss\* “betrayed our country.”
The aforementioned abandonment of our principles is rightly called “a betrayal.” It is not rightly called “treason,” and I will ask you to note that they are two different words for a reason.
> [@furt](#):
>
> Just a few weeks ago, [one compared him to a vampire](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/10/grayson-cheney-has-blood-that-drips-from-his-teeth.php). Is that supposed to be better?
I left this out before, but what the hell. Yes, it’s better. Why? Because while vampirism is a fantasy concept, treason is real.
> [@furt](#):
>
> Nationally syndicated left-wing talk show hosts called Cheney’s boss\* a fascist. Again, is that not as bad?
No, it’s not as bad. Because a nationally syndicated left-wing talk show host is not the former vice president of the United States.
Also, cite about the nationally syndicated left-wing talk show host?
\*Also, please note that Cheney’s **boss** is the citizenry of the United States of America.
---
### Author:  [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/95 "2009-12-11T02:30:10Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Also, please note that Cheney’s **boss** is the citizenry of the United States of America.
I’ve never seen any indication that that was the way Cheney felt about his relationship towards the citizenry of the United States.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/96 "2009-12-11T02:40:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> I betrayed Tammy Sue when I told her that my affections weren’t primarily sexual when, really, they were. Not a nice thing to do, but I expect she got over it by now.
She still talks about it, you know. Sometimes. When she’s drunk.
---
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/97 "2009-12-11T02:44:34Z")
> [@waterj2](#):
>
> I’ve never seen any indication that that was the way Cheney felt about his relationship towards the citizenry of the United States.
Heh. Too fucking bad. It’s the truth.
Anyway, make that _Also, please note that Cheney’s boss **WAS** the citizenry of the United States of America._
---
### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/98 "2009-12-11T02:51:05Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> The aforementioned abandonment of our principles is rightly called “a betrayal.” It is not rightly called “treason,” and I will ask you to note that they are two different words for a reason.
And you’re totally cool with all that, right? If Cheney had said “Obama is betraying America,” that would be completely acceptable discourse?
> [@](#):
>
> Why? Because while vampirism is a fantasy concept, treason is real.
Fine … replace Grayson with Pete Stark saying Bush was amused when soldiers died. Wanna rationalize for that one?
> [@](#):
>
> No, it’s not as bad. Because a nationally syndicated left-wing talk show host is not the former vice president of the United States.
You’re moving the goalposts – you said “Nationally syndicated left-wing talk show hosts didn’t call him a traitor.”
> [@](#):
>
> Also, cite about the nationally syndicated left-wing talk show host?
[Olbermann,](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u19KHbTJEOk) for one.
---
### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/99 "2009-12-11T03:04:13Z")
> [@gonzomax](#):
>
> [http://www.michiganmilitia.com/](http://www.michiganmilitia.com/) Defunct?
>
> [http://detnews.com/article/20090416/OPINION03/904160398/Anger-boils-among-Michigan-militia-members](http://detnews.com/article/20090416/OPINION03/904160398/Anger-boils-among-Michigan-militia-members) Defunct?
Defunct. The Michigan Militia shut down operations in 2000, and Norman Olson moved to Alaska to start a militia there. There are a couple of different organizations using the Michigan Militia name now, but they’re not the same organization McVeigh was associated with.
The reason they shut down was that the founder (Olson) wrote an article in support of the Oklahoma City bombing, and most of his membership quit in disgust.
---
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 11, 2009, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680/100 "2009-12-11T03:07:06Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> And you’re totally cool with all that, right? If Cheney had said “Obama is betraying America,” that would be completely acceptable discourse?
Well, I’d want him to back it up with some facts, but I doubt that he’d have gotten this thread from **John Mace**. As for what I’m totally cool with, I’m not prepared to say that his continuing to breathe makes that list, but that’s a different subject.
> [@furt](#):
>
> Fine … replace Grayson with Pete Stark saying Bush was amused when soldiers died. Wanna rationalize for that one?
Nope. I’ll pass.
> [@furt](#):
>
> You’re moving the goalposts – you said “Nationally syndicated left-wing talk show hosts didn’t call him a traitor.”
I **did??!!??** Would you show me where I said that, please?
> [@furt](#):
>
> [Olbermann,](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u19KHbTJEOk) for one.
Well, I don’t watch news programs on television, so I’m not sure, but I **thought** Mr. Olbermann was a commentator. What talk show does he host?
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680.md?page=4)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-traitor/520680.md?page=6)