# Obama Voters: Chill - He's No Fool **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 15, 2008, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678 "2008-09-15T08:12:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/21 "2008-09-15T17:34:06Z")
Yeah, I think it’s one of those feel-good things that doesn’t mean much and is pretty much always true. When have the “the fundamentals” (whatever they are) been weak? Would Obama say they were? I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/22 "2008-09-15T17:38:35Z")
GWB says it a lot too. What really grates on me is the “economy are” juxtaposition- even though it is grammatically correct, it’s inartful. That is why the phrase grates on me. I understand that you want to land on “strong”, though, so it may be the best way to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/23 "2008-09-15T17:43:25Z")
On the one hand, I think it’s stupid to say the words “economy” and “strong” in the same sentence on the day our stock market hits the skids. On the other hand, it seems by saying something like this, John McCain is really trying to make himself the candidate of “hope.” First “Change;” now “Hope.” McCain is slowly co-opting Obama’s campaign messages, and turning Obama into the negative-nelly candidate of “same-ol’-same-ol” Washington politics. Obama’s go to start owning his message again, playing offense, and quit merely reacting to the bullshit McCain’s spewing. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/24 "2008-09-15T17:57:37Z")
There is nothing false about the statement that the fundamentals of the economy are strong; as **John Mace** said it’s one of those generic statements largely devoid of meaning. However given the pre-existing narrative about McCain being complacent and out of touch about the economy I still think it’s a stupid thing for him to say. You can bet the Obama campaign will pounce on it every time he says it. Incidentally, I think not only would Romney have been much better than Palin as VP given the current crisis, he would have been better than McCain at the top of the ticket. Something like a Romney/Bob Gates ticket running on an “experienced hands in troubled times” platform would have been very effective I think. I suspect McCain/Palin will look out of their depth; the latter for obvious reasons and the former because he just isn’t very effective talking about economic issues. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/25 "2008-09-15T18:09:19Z")
Apparently McCain redefined the fundamentals as “workers and small businesses,” so unless you think workers and small businesses are weak, the fundamentals are strong, even if the workers are taking home less pay than they used to, and the small businesses are losing money because the workers have less to spend. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/26 "2008-09-15T18:27:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > [Electoral-vote.com](http://Electoral-vote.com) has McCain winning 270-268, and I personally think it’s favourable to Obama, if anything, since it doesn’t account for the black-guy effect (which I know has a name and I can’t remember it.) I really do not believe Obama can pull off Colorado. Barring any other flips, I think tomorrow will find it Obama’s lead once more with 281-257. [SurveyUSA](http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=c3b77d5f-0d1a-4f6e-b195-ae05355e8eb8) just released a new VA poll showing Obama +4. The lesson isn’t an assured Obama victory of course but rather that it’s still a race. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/27 "2008-09-15T18:30:59Z")
I was about to post the VA poll myself. I bet that will calm a few nerves among Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/28 "2008-09-15T18:48:33Z")
I was watching Charlie Rose a few days ago when he asked his guests if Obama was rattled by the advances made by the McCain camp. I don’t remember who it was who said this, but one of the guests (a writer or reporter, not an Obama spokesperson) remarked that he has never seen anyone as quietly self-confident as Obama. He went on to say that Obama, who grew up in Chicago and loves basketball, is tight with Michael Jordan who has taught him a few things about competing in the big leagues. One of those lessons is that it’s a 4-quarter game, and you have to pace yourself. You bring your A-game in the 4th quarter. The guest said that Obama has not brought his A-game yet. No, he said, Obama is not rattled. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/29 "2008-09-15T18:59:42Z")
Obama has never really been in a tough race before it will be interesting to see how he does. In his first race for the Illinois senate he was able to get his opponents disqualified from the race. In the race for the Senate his opponent had to drop out because of a messy divorce with 7 of 9. His win over the thick legged haridan was impressive, but he an huge advantage because of his race and his opponent’s baggage. There is plenty of time for him to right the ship, but right now his lack of experience is really showing. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/30 "2008-09-15T19:04:41Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Obama has never really been in a tough race before Did you pay no attention to the Primaries? > [@](#): > > His win over the thick legged haridan was impressive, but he an huge advantage because of his race and his opponent’s baggage. Being black has historically been such a huge political advantage, hasn’t it? :rolleyes: No. His race was a distinct disadvantage. He won in _spite_ of his race and he won against a stronger, more established machine. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/31 "2008-09-15T19:14:57Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Obama has never really been in a tough race before it will be interesting to see how he does. In his first race for the Illinois senate he was able to get his opponents disqualified from the race. In the race for the Senate his opponent had to drop out because of a messy divorce with 7 of 9. His win over the thick legged haridan was impressive, but he an huge advantage because of his race and his opponent’s baggage. > There is plenty of time for him to right the ship, but right now his lack of experience is really showing. Indeed. Obama has been coasting on the black thing for so long that we forget that the road is smoothed for him by the black male establishment and the black-controlled media. McCain needs to remind people of his authentic Christian Whiteness and the way that he was able to overcome that to be in _Wedding Crashers_. It’s true that people talk about McCain’s 5.5 years in prison, and I respect him for that, but he has been white for over 72 years, in America of all places. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/32 "2008-09-15T19:20:35Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > Indeed. Obama has been coasting on the black thing for so long that we forget that the road is smoothed for him by the black male establishment and the black-controlled media. McCain needs to remind people of his authentic Christian Whiteness and the way that he was able to overcome that to be in _Wedding Crashers_. > > It’s true that people talk about McCain’s 5.5 years in prison, and I respect him for that, but he has been white for over 72 years, in America of all places. I’d also like to stress-- and I don’t think it’s irrelevant to the conversation-- he’s also not been a black Muslim for 72 years now too. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/33 "2008-09-15T19:32:39Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > McCain is slowly co-opting Obama’s campaign messages, and turning Obama into the negative-nelly candidate of “same-ol’-same-ol” Washington politics. Obama’s go to start owning his message again, playing offense, and quit merely reacting to the bullshit McCain’s spewing. It would appear that [Obama has noticed and is doing something about it.](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_If_you_believe_that_Ive_got_a_bridge_in_Alaska_to_sell_you.html?showall) > [@](#): > > “But now suddenly, John McCain says he is about change, too. He even started using some of my lines. Suddenly he says he wants ‘to turn the page.’ He had an ad today that he started running that he and Gov. Palin would bring the change that we need. He had this in an advertisement. Sound familiar? Let me tell you something, instead of borrowing my lines he needs to borrow our ideas,” Obama said. > > He followed up with a dig at lobbyists, saying “if you think those lobbyists are working day and night for John McCain just to put themselves out of business, well then I’ve got a bridge to sell you up in Alaska.” ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/34 "2008-09-15T19:35:19Z")
> **[David Ignatius - Stopping At Nothing To Win](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/12/AR2008091202594.html)** > > In the military culture that shaped John McCain, there is no more important responsibility than the promotion boards that select the right officers for top positions of command. It's a sacred trust in McCain's world, because people's lives are at... Today’s column in WaPo by Ignatius is a near-perfect example of how the Palin pick has alienated centrist pundits who used to respect McCain. How does this matter? Not many voters read Ignatius but he is exactly the kind of pundit who helps shape the media buzz and powerful narratives which do influence voters. Right now the narrative of McCain as a dishonest opportunist is gradually taking shape. This in turn makes it much easier for the Obama campaign to attack and define McCain. Which appears to be exactly what they are doing. A month back attacking McCain might not have been nearly as effective because pundits like Ignatius still gave him the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/35 "2008-09-15T19:52:14Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > How does this matter? Not many voters read Ignatius but he is exactly the kind of pundit who helps shape the media buzz and powerful narratives which do influence voters. What troubles me, though, is the feeling that media buzz is counter-productive. If Obama gets the media on his side, sifting through Palin’s record and pointing out all her lies and abuses – all it does is rile up the base, because that mean old leftwing media is picking on their girl. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/36 "2008-09-15T19:55:29Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It would appear that [Obama has noticed and is doing something about it.](http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0908/Obama_If_you_believe_that_Ive_got_a_bridge_in_Alaska_to_sell_you.html?showall) oooohhhh, i love the “bridge in alaska” line. sen. obama, i’m gonna have to borrow that one. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/37 "2008-09-15T19:56:58Z")
The Republican strategy is obvious. Address the issues as little as possible, and put Palin out front in every soft forum from People Magazine to Entertainment Tonight. They are also hoping the media will cooperate (as they have so far) by simply airing Palin’s canned speeches to friendly Republican audiences. In other words, they want to win on star power. It would be nice if the media would grow a pair and refuse to air the speeches of either McCain or Palin unless Palin is made readily available for interviews. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/38 "2008-09-15T20:00:43Z")
> [@spoke-](#): > > The Republican strategy is obvious. Address the issues as little as possible, and put Palin out front in every soft forum from People Magazine to Entertainment Tonight. Btw…I just noticed in the supermarket that Palin is on the cover of National Enquirer in a most unflattering light: babies, drugs, affairs. And I just have a gut feeling that this goes straight to the audience that McCain - Palin would most like to court. And that’s an encouraging thought, to quote Gandalf. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/39 "2008-09-15T20:03:04Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > What troubles me, though, is the feeling that media buzz is counter-productive. If Obama gets the media on his side, sifting through Palin’s record and pointing out all her lies and abuses – all it does is rile up the base, because that mean old leftwing media is picking on their girl. Well yes but the right-wing base isn’t nearly big enough to defeat Obama if he can win the Independents who are much more open to what the media is saying. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2008, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678/40 "2008-09-15T20:13:51Z")
The McCain campaign seems to have become the Palin campaign. I cannot remember a presidential candidate being eclipsed by his running mate the way McCain has been in the past few weeks. It seems it’s all Palin now. All the excitement is about Palin. All the talk is about Palin. Palin has all the magazine covers. She travels with McCain most of the time instead of splitting up the way candidates normally do. Now the thing is can the Palin bounce last all the way until November 4th? If not, is McCain toast? He seems to be betting the farm on her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-voters-chill-hes-no-fool/463678.md?page=3)