# Obama vs. Fox **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497 "2009-10-20T16:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/201 "2009-10-21T20:08:19Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > but it _is_ a news source (albeit one with bias). Heh. Wingnut Daily has a bias like a 60-degree grade is a bit of a rise. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/202 "2009-10-21T20:09:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. > > Regards, > Shodan Just because Big Fox is currently talling you that there is a liberal bias, doesn’t make it so. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/203 "2009-10-21T20:49:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > His _act_ went crazier, that is. He’s an entertainer. Are there really all that many people who take it at face value? Millions, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/204 "2009-10-21T20:59:44Z")
I’ll have to go with Mr. Brooks on this one and say [Glenn Beck has no power](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/opinion/02brooks.html?_r=2&em). Someone up thread said most of cable news bickering is a small conversation among a few people sniping at each other. I’d say I generally agree. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/205 "2009-10-21T21:27:20Z")
NPR does a show every Wed called “The Political Junkie” with host Ken Rudin. He’s an astute political observer, and today he and a few guests discussed this issue. I didn’t hear the entire thing, but from what I did hear, there was unanimous agreement that going after Fox like this is a bad thing. For many of the reasons being brought up in this thread. Then, towards the end of the show they interviewed Helen Thomas, who said the same thing. Not good policy, and not good politics. I’m sure you can get this as a Pod cast, and I’d encourage anyone interested in this topic to listen. Of course, a lot of people here seem to have their minds made up in advance, so maybe that won’t help much… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/206 "2009-10-21T21:32:45Z")
They’re all wrong. Obama isn’t “going after” Fox, by the way. Simply stating the cold fact that Fox is not a news organization is not “going after” them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/207 "2009-10-21T21:37:49Z")
[QUOTE=DtC] They’re all wrong. [/QUOTE] Ah…so glad you pointed that out. All wrong, ehe? Well, that clears that up. I guess we can all move along now… > [@](#): > > Obama isn’t “going after” Fox, by the way. Simply stating the cold fact that Fox is not a news organization is not “going after” them. Sure it isn’t… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/208 "2009-10-21T21:37:59Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > They aren’t the same, they’re the opposite. Bush embraced Fox because it’s the propaganda arm of the Republican party, and Obama is criticizing it for the same thing. Obama’s not playing favourites like Bush did. I don’t think I’m making a very mysterious point here: these tactics are two sides of the same coin. Networks that give favorable coverage get more access from the White House, those that do not get less, and once in a rare while that second group of networks gets publicly bashed for getting the story “wrong.” Manipulating access is part of the game and I think the press understands that, although the public proably does not. But actively bashing specifics channels or outlets to this degree is unusual, I think. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/209 "2009-10-21T21:43:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’re all wrong. > > Obama isn’t “going after” Fox, by the way. Simply stating the cold fact that Fox is not a news organization is not “going after” them. Some people will perceive it as “going after” them. This is politics, not a science class; facts don’t matter. Even so, I still don’t see this as being much of a problem since anyone who’s ever seen Fox News knows it’s a right-wing outfit, and/or is someone who believes the Glenn Beck insanity, and probably was never following Obama in the first place. I suppose there may be some small group of people somewhere who don’t watch cable news, and managed to grab a hold of this story who are thinking, “Hey, why’s he picking on those nice news people?” but I’m not worried about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/210 "2009-10-21T21:51:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > They’re all wrong. I guess we’ll see. > [@](#): > > Obama isn’t “going after” Fox, by the way. Simply stating the cold fact that Fox is not a news organization is not “going after” them. Yes he is, and yes it is. Or call it his administration. Whatever. Three senior administration officials virtually simultaneously sayin the same thing. Doesn’t even matter whether their statements are true or not. You can go after someone with the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/211 "2009-10-21T22:00:40Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t think I’m making a very mysterious point here: these tactics are two sides of the same coin. Absolutely not. There is only one side to this coin. You aren’t getting it - the only bias that exists, anywhere, is bias in favor of Bush. There are no examples, ever, of anyone being biased in favor of anyone else. Ever. That never has happened, and never will happen. No networks, no news organizations, have ever been biased except in that sense. Ever. And when it did happen, it didn’t. This is exactly the same as the ACORN thing. The 60% of the public who see media bias are wrong. The examples that have been documented never happened. It’s all lies. > [@](#): > > Jeremiah Wright, Van Jones, the ACORN kerfuffle, and so on … all were reported on Fox, and only later – in many cases much later – did other media pick up on them (IIRC, the NYT did not even mention the Jones flap until he’d already resigned). None of these events ever occurred. They are all lies, entirely made up and spread by Fox News, aka [Emmanuel Goldstein](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Goldstein). Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/212 "2009-10-21T22:03:19Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > For the same reason a Republican president needs to take left wing news agencies seriously. If you don’t get this then I’m at a loss to explain it to you. It’s sort of Politics 101 stuff. Obama should start taking World Net Daily “seriously.” They are a legitimate news organization, albeit with a bias. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/213 "2009-10-21T22:22:51Z")
This is John Kerry vs. the Swiftboaters all over again. The old school Democrats thought it would be unseemly if Kerry addressed the issue because he shouldn’t stoop to their level. I am glad that Obama and company have learned from history so it won’t repeat itself. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/214 "2009-10-21T22:23:48Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Obama should start taking World Net Daily “seriously.” They are a legitimate news organization, albeit with a bias. Yeah, I remember when Bush would always appear and gracefully debate with those serious journalists at Pacifica Radio. Some may say that Pacifica is more analogous to Fox in its extremity than to WND but we all know the truth! ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/215 "2009-10-21T22:36:02Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Yeah, I remember when Bush would always appear and gracefully debate with those serious journalists at Pacifica Radio. Some may say that Pacifica is more analogous to Fox in its extremity than to WND but we all know the truth! [/QUOTE] Even if Pacifica is analogous to Fox (:dubious:), you would only have a point if Bush had actually come out and said Pacifica (or some other left wing organization) wasn’t a news site. AFAIK, Bush didn’t directly confront any opposition news organization…he did what Obama SHOULD have done, and ignored them. If I’m wrong and he did confront Pacifica or NPR or some other organization directly then…well, it’s still a bad idea. ‘Well, Bush did it’ isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement for good policy after all… -XT ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/216 "2009-10-21T22:52:15Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Obama should start taking World Net Daily “seriously.” They are a legitimate news organization, albeit with a bias. No, they aren’t. They’re not even an _il_legitimate news organization. It’s just a garden variety, right wing website. They’re a dime a dozen. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/217 "2009-10-21T23:02:19Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, they aren’t. They’re not even an _il_legitimate news organization. It’s just a garden variety, right wing website. They’re a dime a dozen. Boulder dash and Poppy Cock. I don’t care. As long as they have a thin veneer of news credibility on their site they are a news organization – and the ink other organizations have given to the WND-driven Birther claim gives them that veneer. If that doesn’t satisfy you, take a look at their page and see all of the “WorldNetDaily Exclusive” tags. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/218 "2009-10-21T23:35:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > All those stories were phony, contrived and manufactured. Not one of them contained any revelations about Obama. Not one of them was newsworthy. Wow! All these non-stories resulted in Obama finally disavowing Wright, Van Jones having to resign before he got fired, and ACORN getting much of its funding pulled, never mind that appalling/comical/sad behavior of some of their workers with the prostitute sting. But, I guess, as **Shodan** said, these non-stories resulted in these thing never happening. Right? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/219 "2009-10-21T23:39:02Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > This is John Kerry vs. the Swiftboaters all over again. The old school Democrats thought it would be unseemly if Kerry addressed the issue because he shouldn’t stoop to their level. > > I am glad that Obama and company have learned from history so it won’t repeat itself. Wrong. That’s a terrible analogy. Why not look, instead, to time when other presidents tried to fight the news. It’s a no-win situation. I have a feeling, though, that this is going to end pretty much right here. We won’t be hearing this sort of stuff from administration officials anymore. Maybe this was a trial balloon (and we now how balloons have fared lately), or maybe this was thought to be a smart tactic. But it’s clear that the overwhelming response by political analysts as well as other news outlets is negative. Obama will wisely change course and let this little brew-ha-ha die. ---
**Author:** ![Dick\_Dastardly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@Dick\_Dastardly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dick_Dastardly)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/220 "2009-10-21T23:42:19Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Boulder dash and Poppy Cock. I don’t care. As long as they have a thin veneer of news credibility on their site they are a news organization – and the ink other organizations have given to the WND-driven Birther claim gives them that veneer. If that doesn’t satisfy you, take a look at their page and see all of the “WorldNetDaily Exclusive” tags. The ink is saying “these people are nuts” and they’re correct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497.md?page=12)