# Obama vs. Fox **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 20, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497 "2009-10-20T16:57:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/521 "2009-11-02T23:41:42Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > If doing “radical” things does not make one “a radical”, what kinds of things can one do to earn such a label? > Ah, so doing leftist (liberal) things makes one “a radical”, right? > > Oh, wait: > > So, doing radical things does not make one a radical - being on the “far left” of the political spectrum of the US makes one radical. But it’s quite different than “liberal”. Well, I was responding to **Flonks** talking about the Limbaugh quote. **Flonks** quoted from an interview with Rush, saying: > [@](#): > > - Interview with Rush Limbaugh: BA is the most radical president ever. He has not done anything for the US but a lot to the US. It’s an attack on freedom itself. (Limbaugh actually said we have “never seen this kind of radical leadership at such a high level of power”, so **Flonks** ’ paraphrase was accurate.) Now, perhaps Rush meant that Obama was radically conservative, but I kind of doubt it. I kinda think he meant radically liberal, but YMMV, perhaps you believe Rush thinks Obama is too conservative for him … So I responded that I think Obama is the most radical (i.e. obviously from context radically liberal) president we’ve had, and I’m glad he is. Of course, the grammar police had to point out that “radical” can mean radical right like Nixon and GWB. Yes, I know that. I also know it can mean the square root sign, or a group of two atoms bound together as one unit, or the form of a word after all prefixes and suffixes are removed … So? How is this even remotely relevant to what we were discussing, Rush’s comment? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/522 "2009-11-02T23:55:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > From [here](http://washingtonindependent.com/56918/civil-rights-commission-may-target-doj-over-new-black-panthers): > > ETA: Look, I’m not saying nothing untoward happened. I am saying that it doesn’t make sense for the Black Panthers to attempt to intimidate black voters. The injunction which the Justice Department sought - while still under _Bush_ - also suggests a lack of evidence. The Panthers were barred from “brandishing a weapon outside a polling station in Philadelphia”. Shockingly enough, brandishing a weapon outside a polling station is _already illegal._ Hang on… You said it was an ‘all-black neighborhood’, implying that white voter intimidation couldn’t have happened because there were no white voters. But that’s not true, is it? There ARE white voters who vote there. It’s a _predominantly_ black neighborhood, which is a whole different matter. Let’s say the neighborhood was 80% black. That would mean perhaps 20% of all voters were intimidated. I looked up the 4th Ward myself. I couldn’t find any specific demographic information, but I found lots of photos and articles which showed plenty of white people. And frankly, I find it most likely that the black panthers would try to intimidate white voters in exactly this kind of area - one they claim as their ‘own’, and in which the majority of people won’t oppose them. And perhaps one where they see ‘white votes’ as being unrepresentative of their neighborhood and they want t to send a unified message of black support or whatever. The fact is, you said it was an all-black neighborhood. It’s not. Your implication was that if it was all-black, then no voter intimidation was possible because there were no whites to intimidate. When I asked for a cite, you tried to pass off a cite that says it is a ‘largely’ black community. For the purposes of determining if voter intimidation was possible, it’s not the same thing at all. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/523 "2009-11-02T23:58:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > From [here](http://washingtonindependent.com/56918/civil-rights-commission-may-target-doj-over-new-black-panthers): > > ETA: Look, I’m not saying nothing untoward happened. I am saying that it doesn’t make sense for the Black Panthers to attempt to intimidate black voters. The injunction which the Justice Department sought - while still under _Bush_ - also suggests a lack of evidence. The Panthers were barred from “brandishing a weapon outside a polling station in Philadelphia”. Shockingly enough, brandishing a weapon outside a polling station is _already illegal._ First, “largely African-American” ≠ “all Black”. Regarding the injunction, from the [DOJ website](http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2009/January/09-crt-014.html): > [@](#): > > **Justice Department Seeks Injunction Against New Black Panther Party** > > \*\*\*Lawsuit Seeks to Prohibit Voter Intimidation in Future Elections > > * * * > > WASHINGTON - The Justice Department today filed a lawsuit under the Voting Rights Act against the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense and three of its members alleging that the defendants intimidated voters and those aiding them during the Nov. 4, 2008, general election. > > The complaint, filed in the United States District Court in Philadelphia, alleges that, during the election, Minister King Samir Shabazz and Jerry Jackson were deployed at the entrance to a Philadelphia polling location wearing the uniform of the New Black Panther Party for Self-Defense, and that Samir Shabazz repeatedly brandished a police-style baton weapon. > > “Intimidation outside of a polling place is contrary to the democratic process,” said Acting Assistant Attorney General Grace Chung Becker. “The Voting Rights Act of 1965 was passed to protect the fundamental right to vote and the Department takes allegations of voter intimidation seriously.” > > According to the complaint, party Chairman Malik Zulu Shabazz confirmed that the placement of Samir Shabazz and Jackson in Philadelphia was part of a nationwide effort to deploy New Black Panther Party members at polling locations on Election Day. The complaint alleges a violation of Section 11(b) of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which prohibits intimidation, coercion or threats against “any person for voting or attempting to vote.” The Department seeks an injunction preventing any future deployment of, or display of weapons by, New Black Panther Party members at the entrance to polling locations. So I’m not sure what your point is … from the video, my guess is that the NBPP claimed that they weren’t intimidating anybody, the guy just happened to be carrying a nightstick. For self defense. In case something happened. Yeah, that’s the ticket. The DOJ replied with an injunction against carrying **any** weapons around polling places … because contrary to your claim, as near as I can tell carrying a nightstick near a polling place is not illegal. I find laws making it illegal to carry a concealed weapon or a deadly weapon into a polling place, but I find no laws against carrying nightsticks outside the polling place … hence the injunction. ETA - what Sam Stone said, but faster and clearer than me. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/524 "2009-11-03T00:11:39Z")
> [@flonks](#): > > Was this poll taken on Fox News’ website? I had said: > [@](#): > > An interesting poll just out on National Public Radio. Usual caveats about internet polls apply. and I thought I had cited it … but looking back, noooo … It is on that bastion of right-wing conservatism, [the NPR website](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/10/in_white_house_vs_fox_news_war.html). Apologies for the lack of clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/525 "2009-11-03T00:39:56Z")
> [@intention](#): > > I had said: > > and I thought I had cited it … but looking back, noooo … It is on that bastion of right-wing conservatism, [the NPR website](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/10/in_white_house_vs_fox_news_war.html). Apologies for the lack of clarity. > **[freep poll - White House is accusing Fox News](https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2373884/posts)** > [@](#): > > Freep this poll > > the White House is accusing Fox News of not being a legitimate source of news, calling them biased, etc. They have tried to block Fox reporters from news conferences, etc., but the other news networks are fighting back (in favor of Fox) and caused the White House to back down. NPR has put a survey online for us to voice our opinion. If you want to vote in this survey, go to the link below and cast your vote. Currently it is 71% in favor of the White House, but there are not that many votes … less than 2,000 all together. Let’s show them how we feel about honest conservative news reporting. > [@](#): > > NPR Link for Poll: > by the way you can vote more than once! Not very accurate! > > [In White House Vs. Fox News War Of Words, Who Gets Your Vote? : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/10/in_white_house_vs_fox_news_war.html) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/526 "2009-11-03T00:42:43Z")
Why was it dropped? Because lawyers are human? (I’m not here to debate that, besides, there is DNA evidence…) Imagine: you work in Justice, you eat lunch with, oh, Chuck Johnson, and he rattles on and on about the big time cases he’s on, international jewel thieves, computer security scams from Belgrade and Singapore, he’s about to indict Ernst Stavro Blofeld… And he looks to you and says “Hey, how’s that big case you’re on coming? A couple of black guys scowling, was it? And one of them had a stick?..” ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/527 "2009-11-03T01:33:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why was it dropped? Because lawyers are human? (I’m not here to debate that, besides, there is DNA evidence…) > > Imagine: you work in Justice, you eat lunch with, oh, Chuck Johnson, and he rattles on and on about the big time cases he’s on, international jewel thieves, computer security scams from Belgrade and Singapore, he’s about to indict Ernst Stavro Blofeld… > > And he looks to you and says “Hey, how’s that big case you’re on coming? A couple of black guys scowling, was it? And one of them had a stick?..” Your attempt to minimize a clear case of voter intimidation is pathetic. We don’t know why the case was dropped, because the Obama DOJ has totally stonewalled on the case. However, after weeks of complaints and the DOJ not responding to Freedom of Information requests, I do find this: > [@](#): > > The Justice Department’s Office of Professional Responsibility has begun an official inquiry into the dismissal in May of a civil complaint against the New Black Panther Party and two of its members who disrupted a Philadelphia polling place during the November general elections. > > The inquiry is disclosed in an Aug. 28 letter to Rep. Lamar Smith of Texas, the ranking Republican on the House Judiciary Committee who first raised questions about the dismissal in May and asked unsuccessfully that Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. make available the head of the department’s Voting Section of the Civil Rights Division for a closed-door briefing on the decision." [SOURCE](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/09/inquiry-opened-about-new-black-panther-case/) So fortunately, unlike you, they don’t find it a laughing matter, ha, ha … although given the DOJ actions, I foresee a whitewash. I’m willing to be surprised, however. Regarding the ludicrous claim that the NBPP wouldn’t do such a stupid thing as to intimidate people in a black district, I find this: > [@](#): > > Chris Hill, national director of operations for a Gathering of Eagles, an organization dedicated to the support of U.S. troops, said the NBPP members visibly intimidated voters with racial slurs as they tried to enter the building. > > Mr. Hill, a U.S. Army veteran who also served as a Philadelphia poll watcher for Republicans, said several voters at the location said they were afraid. He said the NBPP members tried to deny him access to the poll although he was a certified poll watcher, telling him, “White power don’t rule here.” > > A Justice Department memo also says that a black couple, Larry and Angela Counts, both Republican poll watchers, told authorities they were scared, worried about their safety and concerned about leaving the polling place at the end of the day because of the actions of the NBPP members. Mrs. Counts said she wondered whether someone might “bomb the place” and Mr. Counts said the NBPP members called him a “race traitor,” the memo said. [SOURCE](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul/30/no-3-at-justice-okd-panther-reversal/print/) Where is Jimmy Carter when we need him? And more to the point, **elucidator** , what the hell are you doing trying to minimize this? People are getting threatened at a polling place, a black guy is being called a “race traitor”, and you want to make jokes about “a black guy scowling”??? Here’s a clue. Intimidating people to influence their vote is not funny. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/528 "2009-11-03T02:53:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Hang on… You said it was an ‘all-black neighborhood’, implying that white voter intimidation couldn’t have happened because there were no white voters. I implied no such thing. I implied that since there were virtually no white voters, intimidation was not worthwhile. > [@intention](#): > > The DOJ replied with an injunction against carrying **any** weapons around polling places … because contrary to your claim, as near as I can tell carrying a nightstick near a polling place is not illegal. I find laws making it illegal to carry a concealed weapon or a deadly weapon into a polling place, but I find no laws against carrying nightsticks outside the polling place … hence the injunction. Excellent job of refuting a claim I didn’t make. I would ask you to go back and read my post again, but since you had trouble with it the first time I’ll explain it to you. I said it is illegal to _brandish_ a weapon outside a polling place, not to _carry_ one. I’m sure you can appreciate the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/529 "2009-11-03T03:18:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I implied no such thing. I implied that since there were virtually no white voters, intimidation was not worthwhile. You did not say that there were ‘virtually no white voters’. You said it was an ‘all-black neighborhood’ - a ‘fact’ you apparently pulled out of thin air. You’ve since been shown that there in fact white voters there, and they complained of intimidation. And aren’t you of the party that screams up and down that every vote must count, even if a poll-worker has to divine intent through examining dimpled chads? You’re being awfully blase’ about actual voter intimidation now that it’s your side being accused - just like you seem to be awfully blase’ about vote fraud being perpetrated by ACORN. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/530 "2009-11-03T03:39:39Z")
> [@intention](#): > > Your attempt to minimize a clear case of voter intimidation is pathetic… But what if I’m right? What if it is nothing? What if my \*Talking Points Memo \*take on the matter is exactly right? You are aware, I trust, that your sources have a dog in this fight, yes? That the _Washington Times_ is notorious around these parts for being totally full of shit? That your cites are suspect? You see, those cites would be the same, whether there is a glimmer of truth to this or no. If there is nothing whatsoever there, which is the main thrust of the cite I offered above (which seems to have escaped your attention)… They would be doing _exactly_ the same thing! “Why is the White House refusing to act regarding the dreadful scandal of [nothing]!” “What is Eric Holder hiding when he refuses to act about [nothing]!” “Today, Lamar Smith (R-Scratchbutt) demanded a full Congressional investigation into the growing scandal of [nothing]!” “You know, a lot of people are saying that there is a huge cover-up in the whole [nothing] firestorm!” You act as though scandal-mongering by commited partisans has some relevence. Says who? What if it really is [nothing]? What would be different if it were? > [@](#): > > …We don’t know why the case was dropped, because the Obama DOJ has totally stonewalled on the case… Unless, of course, there’s [nothing]. > [@](#): > > … although given the DOJ actions, I foresee a whitewash. I’m willing to be surprised, however… How will you know? If its [nothing], genuinely [nothing], isn’t that going to look _exactly_ like a “whitewash”? What test to you propose to check? > [@](#): > > …Regarding the ludicrous claim that the NBPP wouldn’t do such a stupid thing as to intimidate people in a black district, I find this:… Who said this? It always helps when your refuting something specific to specify who and/or what you are refuting. Because some guys like to knock down something nobody ever said because it adds a false gleam of respectability to lying scum. So, maybe don’t do what they do, or you’ll give a bad impression. > [@](#): > > …Where is Jimmy Carter when we need him?.. . Huh? > [@](#): > > And more to the point, **elucidator** … We can only hope… > [@](#): > > …what the hell are you doing trying to minimize this?.. What if its [nothing]? I offer testimony that its [nothing], you ignore it and insist that its severely something super-dooper important because the \*Washington Times \*and Lamar Smith say so? You worry me, I’m afraid you’re not kidding, or don’t know that you are. > [@](#): > > …Intimidating people to influence their vote is not funny. I don’t know anything about these people, and you don’t know much more than that. I do recollect that in the roughly forty-odd years since the Black Panther Party sank beneath the waves, a whole bunch of half-assed “black radicals” have tried to cash in on the brand. So I suspect these guys are trying to draw some attention by posing as **protectors** of the polling place. They hope to represent themselves as protecting the black polling places, like the old school Panthers had done. I doubt such protection is needed, and thus I doubt their motives. That they had harsh words with persons who present themselves a Republican pollwatchers? Well, catch me as I clutch my pearls and faint dead away! This is all you got? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/531 "2009-11-03T03:39:43Z")
Nobody got “threatened” anyway. The whole story is a fucking racist, paranoid jerkoff. A couple of black guys stood around with sticks. Wooooooooooo. They were worried that some There’s no evidence that a single person was threatened or intimidated. Rednecks show up at rallies with guns and assasination signs and nobody cares. A black guy carries a stick around and whitey pees his pants. Jesus, what a joke this story was. A classic example of Fox using a black boogeyman as a surrogate to scare people away from Obama. It was pathetic, disgraceful hate-mongering. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/532 "2009-11-03T03:40:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Excellent job of refuting a claim I didn’t make. I would ask you to go back and read my post again, but since you had trouble with it the first time I’ll explain it to you. I said it is illegal to _brandish_ a weapon outside a polling place, not to _carry_ one. I’m sure you can appreciate the difference. If you hang in through the first 18 seconds of [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU&feature=related), you’ll see plenty of brandishing. Existence of videos like this and reams of eyewitness testimony is what makes the dismissal of this case so perplexing. It looks open-and-shut. The violation of the law is clear to see. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/533 "2009-11-03T03:43:23Z")
“Intimidation,” my ass. They were afraid some rednecks might try to fuck with black voters (a completely reasonable fear, given the incontinent, blubbering hysteria of Redneck America we keep seeing at the teabag circle jerks). If they’d been white people with batons, no one would have batted an eye. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/534 "2009-11-03T03:44:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Y…just like you seem to be awfully blase’ about vote fraud being perpetrated by ACORN. Boy, he’s got you there, **Not…Bright**! Why, I saw you just the other day, hanging around being blase. You didn’t have anything to say about the huge voter fraud committed by ACORN. Nothing! What gives you the right to be so blase about such a massive scandal, simply because it never actually happened? Is that some kind of post-modernist thing? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/535 "2009-11-03T03:46:35Z")
Jesus Christ, **Sam** , you’re still trying to peddle that “ACORN voter fraud” horseshit? Did you find any actual evidence yet? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/536 "2009-11-03T03:49:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If you hang in through the first 18 seconds of [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neGbKHyGuHU&feature=related), you’ll see plenty of brandishing. > > Existence of videos like this and reams of eyewitness testimony is what makes the dismissal of this case so perplexing. It looks open-and-shut. The violation of the law is clear to see. My Og, the terror! You’re right, he _was_ standing there! With a stick! And the way that guy was telling him that he was being intimidating, and he still stood there! I was thinking, any minute now, he’s going to give him the Samuel L. Jackson eyeball… ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/537 "2009-11-03T04:09:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Nobody got “threatened” anyway. The whole story is a fucking racist, paranoid jerkoff. A couple of black guys stood around with sticks. Wooooooooooo. They were worried that some > > There’s no evidence that a single person was threatened or intimidated. Rednecks show up at rallies with guns and assasination signs and nobody cares. A black guy carries a stick around and whitey pees his pants. Jesus, what a joke this story was. A classic example of Fox using a black boogeyman as a surrogate to scare people away from Obama. It was pathetic, disgraceful hate-mongering. Can you not read? I will re-quote: > [@](#): > > Chris Hill, national director of operations for a Gathering of Eagles, an organization dedicated to the support of U.S. troops, said the NBPP members visibly intimidated voters with racial slurs as they tried to enter the building. > > Mr. Hill, a U.S. Army veteran who also served as a Philadelphia poll watcher for Republicans, said several voters at the location said they were afraid. He said the NBPP members tried to deny him access to the poll although he was a certified poll watcher, telling him, “White power don’t rule here.” > > A Justice Department memo also says that a black couple, Larry and Angela Counts, both Republican poll watchers, told authorities they were scared, worried about their safety and concerned about leaving the polling place at the end of the day because of the actions of the NBPP members. Mrs. Counts said she wondered whether someone might “bomb the place” and Mr. Counts said the NBPP members called him a “race traitor,” the memo said. Yes, there is evidence. When a black guy with a nightstick says “white power don’t rule here”, that’s intimidation. Black people said they were scared, but in Dio’s world, somehow that doesn’t count. Who is racist here, when you are all too willing to throw out the testimony of a black couple who said they were intimidated? Hey, a big guy with a nightstick is intimidating to me regardless of color … but not to Dio, he’s a he-man, he’s not intimidated by a little thing like an angry man with a big stick making racial epithets. He doesn’t care that _“several voters said they were afraid”_, clearly they’re just wimps. This is not Fox and a boogeyman, that’s your sick twisted perversion of the truth. The Justice Department took it seriously. And they are still taking it seriously. The judge in the case took it seriously. The people who were scared took it seriously. And you think it’s a joke … I know what the joke is here, and if you grab a mirror, so will you. Finally, if you don’t see the difference between a weapon at a rally, and a weapon at a polling place, I’m sure Jimmy Carter can explain it too you. It has to do with this thing called “voting”, which has special rules to keep assholes from intimidating people when they go to vote, whether the assholes are white, black, or green. Google “voting” or “democracy”, there’s a good fellow … ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/538 "2009-11-03T04:24:23Z")
I don’t believe anyone was scared. If they really were, then they’re idiots. How is “white power don’t rule here,” intimidating or a threat. I’d say “fuck yeah.” A couple of black Republicans got called “race traitors” (which they kind of were) and “wondered” if somebody might bomb them? Since when is “wondering” if somebody might do something evidence that might actually do it? I used to get worse racial slurs hurled at me all the time when I worked in the inner city running after school programs and summer day camps. “Redneck,” “white boy,” “cracker.” I didn’t piss myself and go sobbing for a cop. I just waved. Half the time, they thought I was looking for crack. The other half of the time, they were just saying hello. I’m no tough guy either. I’m a complete candy ass. It just never occurred to me to be afraid for my life and go screaming for the law. What I see here is not racist intimidation. I just see partisans hoping to wring some kind of pathetic (and racist) political gain out of pretending to be scared. An endeavor Fox News was only too happy (and desperate enough on election day) to assist with. ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/539 "2009-11-03T05:00:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t believe anyone was scared. If they really were, then they’re idiots. How is “white power don’t rule here,” intimidating or a threat. I’d say “fuck yeah.” > > A couple of black Republicans got called “race traitors” (which they kind of were) and “wondered” if somebody might bomb them? Since when is “wondering” if somebody might do something evidence that might actually do it? > I used to get worse racial slurs hurled at me all the time when I worked in the inner city running after school programs and summer day camps. “Redneck,” “white boy,” “cracker.” I didn’t piss myself and go sobbing for a cop. I just waved. Half the time, they thought I was looking for crack. The other half of the time, they were just saying hello. I’m no tough guy either. I’m a complete candy ass. It just never occurred to me to be afraid for my life and go screaming for the law. > > What I see here is not racist intimidation. I just see partisans hoping to wring some kind of pathetic (and racist) political gain out of pretending to be scared. An endeavor Fox News was only too happy (and desperate enough on election day) to assist with. Dio, please pick one delusion and stick to it. Either you are tough and you don’t get intimidated, or you are a “complete candy ass”. You can’t be both. Complete candy asses are easily intimidated. I begin to seriously question your reading skills. The NBPP guys with the nightstick tried to deny a poll watcher entrance to the polling place, and said that “white power don’t rule here.” A guy with a stick who is trying to stop a poll watcher from entering a polling place is intimidation no matter what he says. Period. Doesn’t matter if the poll watcher is a candy ass or a he-man. So if a couple of big skinheads with a truncheon were to show up in front of a polling place in full Nazi uniforms and start hurling racial epithets at black voters, I suppose you’d say that’s not intimidation either, right? Just boys having fun? Yeah, I thought not. You’d be screaming for the cops, as would I. And rightly so, because big guys with a nightstick in uniforms in front of a polling place shouting epithets is intimidation. PS - you say: > [@](#): > > How is “white power don’t rule here,” intimidating or a threat. An old lady in a wheelchair saying “white power don’t rule here” is not intimidation or a threat, it’s just bad grammar. A big guy with a nightstick saying “white power don’t rule here” is intimidation. And bad grammar. If you are truly so foolish that you think the intimidation is in the words, and not the implied threat of the big guy with the stick, I fear I can’t help you. Finally, to say that a black person who, for whatever reason, doesn’t choose to vote for Obama is a “race traitor” says a whole lot about your character. Kinda makes me a “race traitor” since I did vote for Obama, but never mind … I know this is a difficult concept for you, but for some people, white or black, not everything is about race … ---
**Author:** ![intention](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e95f7d/32.png) [@intention](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/intention)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497/540 "2009-11-03T05:14:05Z")
Dio, further to your foolishness above equating a weapon at a rally and a weapon at a polling place, I was amused to find this in one of the citations I gave above: > [@](#): > > On its Web page, the NBPP [New Black Panthers Party] said the Philadelphia chapter was suspended from operations and would not be recognized until further notice. It said the orgainzation did not condone or promote the carrying of nightsticks or any kind of weapon at a polling place. > > “We are intelligent enough to understand that a polling place is a sensitive site and all actions must be carried out in a civilized and lawful manner,” it said. So even though you don’t seem to see the difference … they do. And even though you think they did nothing wrong … they are clear that the Philadelphia chapter did, and so they kicked them out of the organization. Would that you were as intelligent as they are … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-vs-fox/514497.md?page=28)