Best take even on Glenn Beck here …
has this been posted? Glenn Beck Loses His Mind On A Caller About Healthcare
“Get of my line!”
That’s fair enough, although I would assume that DOJ officials were already under instruction to observe/defend the “go 'way, it’s 'portant government secrets” line before Obama took over and he simply hasn’t changed it yet.
If they’re still pursuing that line of inquiry in a year, I’ll be will to concede that.
I am not a Christian, I have no use for religion at all … and I am also not so naive as to think that all religions are the same.
Do the Unitarians or the Episcopalians or the Catholics, here in our 21st century, advocate cutting people’s hands off for theft? Do they practice the idea that if someone leaves the religion and speaks out against it, that they should either be killed or have a hand and a foot cut off on either side of their body? Does their religion follow that rule, and other equally bloody and barbaric rules, to this very day? Do Catholic priests stand up now, in the 21st century, to say that adulterers should be stoned to death in the most painful way possible?
I thought not, I seem to recall Jesus said something about stoning … but people are dying today in those ways, and Imams and Ayatollahs are supporting it and condoning it, and Islamic nations are doing it, right now. Today.
Islam is not just Christianity with funny headgear. It is a 14th century warriors religion which is still stuck in the 14th century.
Tell you what. You explain your theory to a Muslim woman who is buried up to her waist in the ground and about to be stoned to death. You tell her what you think. You explain that because David Koresh was Episcopalian, we have to be understanding about what’s going to happen to her. Explain to her how all religions are of equal value, we mustn’t differentiate between them because that would be religious discrimination. Tell her you view stonings with “bemused tolerance”. Sit at her feet and take notes, you’ve got a lot to learn … but don’t sit too close, because following the exact rules laid down by Mohammed, she is about to die in one of the most horrible ways imaginable.
And if you sit too close, the stones might hit you too, and you don’t deserve that. Nobody deserves that. Well, almost nobody. Because you see, she is an adulterer, so she deserves it, be sure to let her know that as well.
I’m sure she will regard your approval of blood-thirsty barbaric practices under the guise of religious tolerance with, what was your phrase, oh, yeah, “compassion and affection”. I fear that when people are dying like that, I can’t follow your preferred path, your recommendation that I should “shrug with bemused tolerance” about what you see as Islam’s minor foibles …
As you point out regarding the Inquisition, the history of most religions contains bloodthirsty barbaric practices … what you don’t seem to have noticed is that this is the 21st century. Wake up! Every single religion has given those practices up, every religion has moved with the times … except one.
Which makes that religion, Islam, different from the others. It is a difference which is causing pain and suffering and bloody death around the planet, and you recommend “bemused tolerance”??? Funny, some of us have a different reaction to people getting killed by their co-religionists because they want to change faiths. Some of us are not bemused by people being stoned to death, with the approval of the Islamic religious authorities and the Islamic state, for the horrible crime of adultery …
I guess you missed the slaughter of Bosnian Muslims by Christian Serbs. Or the slaughter of Nigerian Muslims by Nigerian Christians. Or the slaughter of Catholics in Northern Ireland by Protestants, and vice versa. Or the slaughter of Rwandan Muslims by Rwandan Christians. Or the slaughter of Muslim Ugandans by Ugandan Christians…
RNATB, thanks for your response. I see my writing is not as clear as I would have hoped … not the first time.
Yes, there have always been, and will be for the foreseeable future, massacres and murders committed by people of one religion or another. As you correctly point out, Rwanda, Ireland, Uganda, Bosnia, Serbia, all are examples of religious fights. It’s another reason why I have little use for religion.
But which religions still actively and officially and with the full support of the religious and secular authorities kill people for the heinous crime of wanting to change faiths?
Which religions still actively and officially and with the full support of the religious and secular authorities stone women to death for the heinous crime of adultery?
Which religions still actively and officially and with the full support of the religious and secular authorities chop off a person’s hand because he steals to feed his children?
Give me your list, and I’m happy to discuss every one of the religions on the list …
Here’s one from today’s news, hot off the press. Let’s play “guess the religion”. The world has hundreds of religions, so this will be tough.
A man and a woman were found guilty of adultery. The man was stoned to death. The woman was pregnant, so in a merciful gesture, the authorities are going to let her have the baby … and then stone her to death.
An onlooker said “He was screaming and blood was pouring from his head during the stoning. After seven minutes he stopped moving.”
In an previouse case in the same region, earlier this year a 13 year old girl was stoned to death for adultery … because she had been raped.
Guess the religion …
PS — heck, since this is so difficult, perhaps I should give you a clue:
It’s not David Koresh and the dreaded Episcopalians …
The examples I gave all occurred with the support and in some cases enthusiastic participation of the relevant churches.
Well, lets start with wrong and then we’ll get around to lies.
Early seventh century. And orthodox Islam regards itself as the inheritor of the Hebrew and Christian traditions, with Mohammed being the last of a string of prophets from ancient Hebrew times through Jesus and ending with him. Now you are a little less ignorant. Isn’t that nice?
He wasn’t. His “theology” most closely resembles a deranged offshoot of Pentecostalism. Loosely resembles. Sorta kinda.
Assuming you are referring to the “woman taken in adultery”, you are about nine different kinds of wrong. Of course, as ignorant as you are, you might be talking about Big Bird. Hard to be sure. The parable relates to sin and judgement, not the prescribed punishment. Most modern scholars are unanimous that Jesus was a very traditional Jew and at great pains to emphasize his identification with that tradition. As well, many Biblical scholars regard the story as a later addition to the Scriptures.
Don’t know the difference, do you? You could look it up Wiki, and in five minutes be less ignorant than you are now. If that matters to you.
Now, this is different! This is a lie. This is cutting phrases out of context and twisting the meaning to fit your agenda. Weren’t you the guy who was just pissing and moaning about being taken out of context? Do you really think anybody will be fooled by that?
“What? The 'lucster approves of stoning? Why, that surprises me, I best scroll up and see where…why, no! He didn’t say any such thing, this intention fellow is lying through his teeth! Bad show, that. Tsk tsk…”
To be fair, this is the 21st century. Of the “common era”, or course. You got that one right!
My bad, I was thinking “14 centuries ago”, and wrote “14th century” … ooooh, major error? Makes all my other points wrong? Don’t think so.
Gosh, I was wrong about David Koresh … wonder where I could have gotten that? Oh, wait, you said:
I made a foolish error, I believed what you said … major error? Makes all my other points wrong? Don’t think so.
Do I know the difference between Imams and Ayatollahs? Sure, that’s why I said “Imams and Ayatollahs” … because they are different. So what?
Jesus was an observant Jew. He said “Let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone” … kinda says something about stoning, don’cha think? What might that be? Kinda makes it impossible, maybe? I’m still waiting for you to list the religions that still practice stoning. Catholics? Jews?
In fact, you have said nothing about whether any organized religion approves of the thing I listed. Once again, you have simply attacked me and engaged in nit-picking instead of speaking to the point. Islam is very different from other religions. It still does its stonings in the good old fashioned way, just like grandpa did.
“Gimme that old time religion,
Gimme that old time religion,
Gimme that old time religion,
It’s good enough for me.”
So yes, they still kill people who leave the religion and chop off hands in that good old time tested traditional way …
I asked above for a list above, viz:
Instead of nit-picking and accusing me of not knowing the difference between an Imam and an Ayatollah, give us your list and we’ll discuss all religions on the list.
RNATB, you also haven’t answered the same question:
Unresponsive to what was requested. Read the question again. It’s not all that hard. Give us your list.
Also, a citation showing that the Catholic Church approved of or participated in the Irish bombings would give you bonus points, but wouldn’t answer my question …
Rarher than handing out a half dozen Warnings, I’m just going to shut down this nonsense and hope that when the bunch of you decide to revisit any of the purported topics in this thread you all bring some sense, some decorum, a few facts, much more logic, and significantly less mouth foaming hostility with far fewer insults.
[ /Moderating ]