# Obama was lying when he said he opposed gay marriage... anyone surprised? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 10, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306 "2015-02-10T17:31:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/61 "2015-02-11T02:33:27Z")
I guess I don’t see this as lying. He took a political stance that he didn’t agree with privately. Is there any politician who _doesn’t_ do this? Politics is all about compromise. To me, lying would be saying one thing to get elected with the expectation of doing the opposite once elected. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/62 "2015-02-11T03:03:22Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I guess I don’t see this as lying. He took a political stance that he didn’t agree with privately. You don’t get a pass on lying because you did it for political reasons. Yes, we should not be “shocked” when politicians lie. But let’s not pretend that they aren’t lying. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/63 "2015-02-11T13:38:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You don’t get a pass on lying because you did it for political reasons. Of course you do. Not all lies are equivalent, not on this planet, and they’re ubiquitous too. Ones told to advance a good cause are far more acceptable. The shallow armchair moralizers, who preen about being above it all, claim “Iraq has weapons of mass destruction” to be equivalent to “No, honey, that dress doesn’t make your butt look big”, but it ain’t so. > [@Miller](#): > > Let’s not try to pretend that Obama has ever been a leader on gay rights. I don’t. He’s always been a _follower_ of the people on the subject, a stance which many of his denouncers also claim is the proper role of an elected public servant anyway. It’s just not a subject he feels strongly about as a principle, but he does want to appear to be on the side of the majority, which he has done. I also don’t think he’s an outright atheist, he’s just not nearly as religious inside as he professes. But the appearance of piety (preferably Christian, but Jewish is also acceptable) is simply required of an American pol, along with numerous lesser hypocrisies. Saints don’t get elected often, and when they do, they’re ineffective anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/64 "2015-02-11T14:18:06Z")
Interesting that so many people are in favor of politicians lying outright to the voters when trying to get elected. Though I suspect that for many of these people their views on lying to the voters is highly correlated with their views on the position being lied about. On another note, Republicans have claimed that one reason they have a hard time making deals with Obama is that they don’t trust him. Any relevance? (No!!! Absolutely not! That’s different …) ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/65 "2015-02-11T14:24:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Interesting that so many people are in favor of politicians lying outright to the voters when trying to get elected. Though I suspect that for many of these people their views on lying to the voters is highly correlated with their views on the position being lied about. > > On another note, Republicans have claimed that one reason they have a hard time making deals with Obama is that they don’t trust him. Any relevance? (No!!! Absolutely not! That’s different …) If there is any Democratic president the GOP should trust it is Obama, who has proven numerous times that he will bend over whenever they ask him to …perhaps not so much lately, which is a good thing IMO. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/66 "2015-02-11T14:34:07Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Interesting that so many people are in favor of politicians lying outright to the voters when trying to get elected. In favor? No, I don’t think that’s quite correct. Accepting? Considering the absence of alternatives, yes. If we had a higher quality electorate, more accepting of its responsibility to study the issues objectively and fairly etc., falsehoods wouldn’t be necessary or even beneficial. But that’s not the world we live in, now is it? > [@](#): > > On another note, Republicans have claimed that one reason they have a hard time making deals with Obama is that they don’t trust him. Do you think they’re telling the truth about that? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/67 "2015-02-11T14:45:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > As someone who was actually affected by it, I say “meh”. He did what he had to do to get elected. That didn’t include actually lying down with dogs…it just included scratching them behind the ears with one hand and hefting a rock behind his back with the other. > > ETA: Although there WERE moments in his 2008 campaign that had me tearing out my hair…the South Carolina event with Donnie McClurkin, the ex-gay gospel singer, for example. I suspect Hillary would have been more leader than follower on this issue, had she won the nomination. Naturally, Obama was better than the _Republican_ alternative. But that doesn’t mean he was the best choice overall. He’s unquestionably the best POTUS the LGBT community has ever had, but that’s not saying much. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/68 "2015-02-11T16:12:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Of course you do. Not all lies are equivalent, not on this planet, and they’re ubiquitous too. Ones told to advance a good cause are far more acceptable. The poster I was responding to claimed it wasn’t a lie. I wasn’t talking about whether it’s a big duck or a little duck, but whether it is a duck: > [@Deeg](#): > > ``` > I guess I don't see this as lying. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/69 "2015-02-11T16:19:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Interesting that so many people are in favor of politicians lying outright to the voters when trying to get elected. The thing is, we demand our politician’s personal views on issues in order to ascertain how they will deal with those issues in a professional capacity. He lied about his personal views, but did not particularly lie about how he would deal with SSM professionally. His administration did NOT pursue legalization, though his defense of DOMA may have been lackluster. He never touted himself as a firebrand for DOMA, or a staunch opponent of SSM, since he supported Civil Unions. I’d say we got exactly what we could have reasonably expected, given a straight reading of his position. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/70 "2015-02-11T18:23:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You don’t get a pass on lying because you did it for political reasons. > > Yes, we should not be “shocked” when politicians lie. But let’s not pretend that they aren’t lying. What, exactly, is the lie? Did he say he would never support SSM? Did he publicly say that he _personally_ was against SSM? If I was sent to Hell and made a politician I’m sure there would be public policies that I would support (or not support) that might go against my personal opinions. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/71 "2015-02-11T18:56:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I suspect Hillary would have been more leader than follower on this issue, had she won the nomination. Naturally, Obama was better than the _Republican_ alternative. But that doesn’t mean he was the best choice overall. It does if she would’ve lost to McCain, who presumably _wouldn’t_ have been a leader or a follower on gay rights in general and gay marriage in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/72 "2015-02-11T19:01:28Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > It does if she would’ve lost to McCain, who presumably _wouldn’t_ have been a leader or a follower on gay rights in general and gay marriage in particular. No doubt. But 2008 was such a bad year to be a Republican presidential candidate that McCain lost in a landslide to the black Muslim socialist communist America-hating white-hating candidate.\* Let’s not forget that Obama was very much the long shot in the Democratic primaries. Clinton would have walked into the White House with much less effort had she been the Dem nominee. \*I am not saying I believe any of these things, natch, just that Obama undoubtedly lost votes to each of these narratives. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/73 "2015-02-11T19:11:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No doubt. But 2008 was such a bad year to be a Republican presidential candidate that McCain lost in a landslide to the black Muslim socialist communist America-hating white-hating candidate.\* Let’s not forget that Obama was very much the long shot in the Democratic primaries. Clinton would have walked into the White House with much less effort had she been the Dem nominee. You think Obama out-campaigned Clinton before out-campaigning McCain, but that Clinton – _who was no match for Obama_ – would’ve done even better against McCain? > [@](#): > > \*I am not saying I believe any of these things, natch, just that Obama undoubtedly lost votes to each of these narratives. And Clinton’s – a man-hating secret lesbian atheist with car-_raaazy_ long-rejected ideas about health care and a Vince Foster homicide? Or something? It’s been a while. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/74 "2015-02-11T19:24:17Z")
Who said Clinton was no match for Obama? She actually [won _more_ primary votes](http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/D.phtml). That’s beside the point, though. Democrats (at least outside the South and maybe western PA) are generally not going to have a problem voting for a black guy or even a non-Christian. That’s not necessarily true of the electorate in general. I think you’re overthinking this, anyway. The more electable candidate often wins the primary - see Mitt Romney - but not always. And sure, you can throw out similar epithets at Hillary. But none of them caught on or became mainstream news the way stuff people said about Obama did. Hillary had no Reverend Wright and certainly no birth certificate “scandal”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/75 "2015-02-11T19:57:45Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > What, exactly, is the lie? Did he say he would never support SSM? Did he publicly say that he _personally_ was against SSM?. The latter. He said that, even though he (according to Axelrod) actually wasn’t personally opposed, because it was thought to be politically dangerous to admit the truth. He invoked his Christian faith as, at least part of, the reason he personally opposed SSM. In 2008: > [@](#): > > Obama told Rick Warren’s Saddleback Church that marriage could only extend to heterosexual couples. “I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman,” Obama said at the time. “Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.” He said “for me” 3 times, so I think we can be sure he meant “personally”. ---
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/76 "2015-02-11T20:38:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The [details](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/david-axelrod-obama-bullshitting-gay-marriage) are from David Axelrod’s new book. Obama never privately opposed gay marriage, but Axelrod convinced him to publicly support civil unions rather than gay marriage for political reasons. > > Anyone surprised? I’m not. > > This should offer hope to all those who think he’s a secret atheist (I’m skeptical, but it’s possible). Was any President elected that didn’t lie to get there? (Maybe Washington, since I seem to recall that he was reticent to accept the position.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/77 "2015-02-11T21:11:59Z")
Washington’s reticence may have been an act, too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/78 "2015-02-11T22:57:54Z")
I don’t think less of Obama for this, but it reinforces my contempt for idiot Americans who believe or act as if they believe the gay-marriage issue is contentious in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2015, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/79 "2015-02-11T23:32:28Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who said Clinton was no match for Obama? She actually [won _more_ primary votes](http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P08/D.phtml). And, as per that cite, he won more delegates. > [@](#): > > That’s beside the point, though. Democrats (at least outside the South and maybe western PA) are generally not going to have a problem voting for a black guy or even a non-Christian. That’s not necessarily true of the electorate in general. Can’t you just as easily impute sexism to non-Democrats as you do racism and so on? > [@](#): > > And sure, you can throw out similar epithets at Hillary. But none of them caught on or became mainstream news the way stuff people said about Obama did. Hillary had no Reverend Wright and certainly no birth certificate “scandal”. Well, coming back around to what I’d said, Obama did land a pretty solid hit on her in the debates by noting that her proposed health-insurance plan was a horrible idea because it’d force the poor to buy insurance. ---
**Author:** ![Valteron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f17d59/32.png) [@Valteron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valteron)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-was-lying-when-he-said-he-opposed-gay-marriage-anyone-surprised/712306/80 "2015-02-12T00:18:37Z")
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