# obama wins nobel peace prize....what is the sound of a right-wing head exploding? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172 "2009-10-09T09:07:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/381 "2009-10-11T00:27:13Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The world has lots of dictators. We can’t get rid of all of them. Why not? Get rid of the dictators and there would be peace. If the world combined to do so, it would probably happen. At the least don’t trade with them. [QUOTE=Squink] Uzi called it a UN mandate rather than a UN statement that “it’d be OK if…” [/QUOTE] Bad choice of words on my part, actually. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/382 "2009-10-11T00:34:15Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And you say the world wants peace? Leaving a dictator like Saddam in power when you have the chance to remove him is not a responsible action. Sure it is. Hussein was contained and was no longer capable of waging war. Iran had already fought him to a draw. Turkey, (where he never demonstrated any desire to attack), was capable of fending him off as well as having close ties to the U.S. and NATO. His adventure in Kuwait had already demonstrated that the world was willing to join forces to prevent aggression to the South. Syria was, more or less, an ally, but could probably have gotten a defense similar to Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, as would Jordan. We had even gone so far as to restrict military operations within Iraq, itself, (providing the cover al Qaida needed to set up some camps there without his interference). Hussein was not a threat against Peace in any way, shape, or form. Taking him out was simply an act of bravado on the part of the Bush administration, following the silly term paper that Wolfowitz put together, demonstrating an utter ignorance of the actual history on which he claimed to have based it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/383 "2009-10-11T00:38:21Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If no one has proposed this “law”, let me do so: Any thread in GD at some point will turn into a debate about the Iraq war. Nah, we have lots of ultiumate arguments: reality of the divine; reality or implications of race; global warming; Conspiracy Theories; etc. It is probably more accurate to posit that there will be no new debates in GD and that any attempt at a new debate will return to a rehashing of a few dozen existing debates. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/384 "2009-10-11T00:58:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Hussein was contained and was no longer capable of waging war. That’s my point. Screw the people who had to live under Saddam as long as we have ‘peace’. Keep half the world under dictators as long as the rest of us can live nice middle class lives and don’t have to worry about any conflict. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/385 "2009-10-11T01:06:56Z")
Who would have thought that at page 8 of a GD political thread the ‘debate’ would have devolved into shrill political snark. Do we need to see more of this Mods or is this enough? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/386 "2009-10-11T01:10:10Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That’s my point. Screw the people who had to live under Saddam as long as we have ‘peace’. Keep half the world under dictators as long as the rest of us can live nice middle class lives and don’t have to worry about any conflict. Garbage. We didn’t conquer them to save them from Saddam, or for any other benevolent reason. We wanted Iraq for political, religious and economic reasons, and to sate our bloodlust over 9-11 by killing any random Middle Easterners we could. The Iraqi people were expendable at best to us. We went there to exploit, slaughter and dominate them; not to save them. And exploit, slaughter and dominate is what we did. America is NOT a benevolent country. America is a nation that despises benevolence as being “bleeding heart liberalism”. Outside our own borders, we don’t care about freedom, democracy or human rights in the slightest despite all of our self righteous speeches; and we care only slightly more INSIDE our borders. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/387 "2009-10-11T01:19:48Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That’s my point. Screw the people who had to live under Saddam as long as we have ‘peace’. Keep half the world under dictators as long as the rest of us can live nice middle class lives and don’t have to worry about any conflict. Your pretensions of good intentions are given the lie by your complaining about how the rest of the world didn’t come to the rescue like a nanny when Bush’s occupation got in trouble. If you actually cared, you’d have made sure America could foot the bill _before_ committing irreversible acts. What doctor worth his salt cuts out a heart if he isn’t sure he has a reliable backup unit ready to slip into its place? America cut out Iraq’s heart, and then asked the world to foot the bill for building a new one more to the Republican party’s liking. They weren’t even nice about asking: > [@](#): > > [Bush Defends Iraq Reconstruction Policy](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105445,00.html) > Friday, December 12, 2003 > A lot of international feathers have been ruffled since the United States announced in a tersely worded message this week that only allies who helped in the Iraq war (search) will be permitted to bid on primary Iraqi reconstruction contracts. > > But in his first public comments on the subject, President Bush stood firm Thursday, and left little room for compromise on $18 billion in U.S.-financed Iraq reconstruction aid. It’s little wonder the world balked. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/388 "2009-10-11T01:42:03Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > That’s my point. Screw the people who had to live under Saddam as long as we have ‘peace’. Keep half the world under dictators as long as the rest of us can live nice middle class lives and don’t have to worry about any conflict. The mortality rate in Iraq skyrocketed because of the American invasion. Anyone who supports the invasion of Iraq on humanitarian grounds is either ignorant of the facts or knows the facts and is dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/389 "2009-10-11T01:52:14Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Garbage. We didn’t conquer them to save them from Saddam, or for any other benevolent reason. We wanted Iraq for political, religious and economic reasons, and to sate our bloodlust over 9-11 by killing any random Middle Easterners we could. The Iraqi people were expendable at best to us. Yes, I’ve often wondered why people thought using Iraqis as human shields (“we’re fighting them over there so we don’t have to fight them over here”) was an argument _in favor_ of Bush policy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/390 "2009-10-11T03:06:43Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Who would have thought that at page 8 of a GD political thread the ‘debate’ would have devolved into shrill political snark. > > Do we need to see more of this Mods or is this enough? I agree. Both “sides” seem to agree the peace prize was premature political nonsense and did President Obama no favors. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/391 "2009-10-11T03:13:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I agree. Both “sides” seem to agree the peace prize was premature political nonsense and did President Obama no favors. Nope, you need to read closer. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/392 "2009-10-11T03:20:13Z")
Iraq did not wage war. We did. Afghanistan did not wage war. We did. The dictator did not wage war, the Democracy did. Turkey said Saddam was a paper tiger and they wanted nothing to do with attacking him. He was a threat to only his citizens and it was their duty to change their government, not ours. We had no cause and no right to attack them. But attack them we did. It is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/393 "2009-10-11T03:42:18Z")
And here I thought the thread was about Obama getting the Nobel prize. Imagine my surprise when I see that it’s yet another thread on the Iraq war. . [QUOTE=gonzomax] Iraq did not wage war. [/QUOTE] The folks in Kuwait and Iran would probably be fairly shocked by this statement. > [@](#): > > Afghanistan did not wage war. I suppose it’s dependent on one’s definition of ‘war’. I’m guessing by your definition the previous few decades of slaughter and bloodshed don’t count because the US wasn’t directly involved? > [@](#): > > Turkey said Saddam was a paper tiger and they wanted nothing to do with attacking him. Well, if Turkey said it, it MUST be true. They have such a great track record for speaking only truth after all…it’s only those nasty American’s who lie, and we are all alone in our denunciation of Iraq and Saddam and all… > [@](#): > > We had no cause and no right to attack them. We had cause, though I don’t believe we had justification. As to right…what planet do you live on? Right? Nation states don’t need a ‘right’ to attack other nation states…only the means. We certainly had the means. I think that the US was wrong to attack Iraq, but your over the top BS really doesn’t help the cause. Instead of hyperbole and BS, why not stick to the actual facts? They are damning enough after all. As to the OP…well, while I think Obama perhaps hasn’t earned the Nobel prize (yet), I think ‘vision’ is a worthwhile thing, and so I’m not all THAT upset by the award. And, personally FWIW and all that, I think Obama has handled the unexpected ‘reward’ of getting it at this time with humility and a lot of class. I’m not sure there were all THAT many more worthy candidates at the time it was being voted on, and while I see the political dimension I also think it was a bold decision. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/394 "2009-10-11T03:47:22Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Your pretensions of good intentions are given the lie by your complaining about how the rest of the world didn’t come to the rescue like a nanny when Bush’s occupation got in trouble. And what is the rest of the world doing now? Nothing other than blame the US and give their president essentially a cracker jack box prize. They don’t care for Iraqis, or Afghanis, or Sudanese, or anyone else living in shitholes. Well, other than spouting platitudes about peace, that is. > [@](#): > > America cut out Iraq’s heart, and then asked the world to foot the bill for building a new one more to the Republican party’s liking. Iraqi’s heart was Saddam Hussein and his dictatorship? Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/395 "2009-10-11T03:54:25Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > And what is the rest of the world doing now? Nothing other than blame the US and give their president essentially a cracker jack box prize. They don’t care for Iraqis, or Afghanis, or Sudanese, or anyone else living in shitholes. Well, other than spouting platitudes about peace, that is. Why should they stick their hand into the buzzsaw? Especially since we are still there; as long as America is still there Iraq will never be anything but a disaster. They don’t in practical terms have the power to drive us out, and no help is possible until we are gone. We’ll simply steal it or wreck it or forbid it. > [@Uzi](#): > > Iraqi’s heart was Saddam Hussein and his dictatorship? Pathetic. He did a better job than we have. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/396 "2009-10-11T04:07:30Z")
It’s true. There was stability there under Hussein. But some people thought that American-controlled chaos would be preferable to Iraqi-controlled stability. Kind of like how people thought that black-controlled chaos would be preferable to white-controlled stability in Rhodesia. We have laws against hunting certain types of animals because removing them from their habitat would create disaster in the ecosystem. It’s a shame that we can’t extend this common sense to politics abroad. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/397 "2009-10-11T04:23:40Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > Iraqi’s heart was Saddam Hussein and his dictatorship? Pathetic. What stability there was in Iraq was due to the continued presence of the Hussein regime. A contained Iraq, in its turn, played a role in whatever stability the region enjoyed. This is the point that **Squink** made, and that you ignored in favor of twisting his analogy into a horrible caricature of sentimentality over the word “heart.” ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/398 "2009-10-11T06:25:33Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > What stability there was in Iraq was due to the continued presence of the Hussein regime. A contained Iraq, in its turn, played a role in whatever stability the region enjoyed. This is the point that **Squink** made, and that you ignored in favor of twisting his analogy into a horrible caricature of sentimentality over the word “heart.” So, North Korea is better with Kim leading things because without him to keep order then people will be worse off? Or that if the World, through the UN, got off its collective ass and decided to clean up Iraq and Afghanistan that they couldn’t do it and make them better places than they are now, or were when they were held by Saddam and the Taliban? If so, please explain why the UN, the US, or anyone should do anything to help anyone anywhere at anytime? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/399 "2009-10-11T07:10:02Z")
I’m going to have to refer you back to **gonzomax** ’s admonishment in 392: > [@](#): > > He was a threat to only his citizens and it was their duty to change their government, not ours. ETA: IOW: Freedom is not something you can impose on a population; they have to see it, want it, and take it for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2009, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172/400 "2009-10-11T07:38:13Z")
And that is the lure of the neo-cons siren song, that we can take advantage of our special position and force democracy on the world, and afterwords, all will be well, because democracies never attack each other. Peace, love and understanding brought to us by ruthless men practicing _realpolitik_ Madness. Madness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-nobel-peace-prize-what-is-the-sound-of-a-right-wing-head-exploding/513172.md?page=21)