# Obama Wins Popular Vote; Superdelegates Pick HRC - What Do You Do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 14, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534 "2008-02-14T00:56:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/41 "2008-02-14T11:32:02Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] Funny in all of this impassioned debate, no one is saying “ya know, if Hillary was the Pres and Obama the VP, they’d be unstoppable and steamroll into the White House with the largest democratic party majority since, well since probably forever.” Nope, it’s all about \*my \* candidate. Or pools say my candidate could beat McCain but your’s won’t… [/QUOTE] I can’t speak for anyone but myself, but while what you say may be true, I find Hillary so devious that idea isn’t appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/42 "2008-02-14T12:06:32Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] Funny in all of this impassioned debate, no one is saying “ya know, if Hillary was the Pres and Obama the VP, they’d be unstoppable and steamroll into the White House with the largest democratic party majority since, well since probably forever.” Nope, it’s all about \*my \* candidate. Or pools say my candidate could beat McCain but your’s won’t… [/QUOTE] Might be because that isn’t the topic of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/43 "2008-02-14T12:16:06Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] Funny in all of this impassioned debate, no one is saying “ya know, if Hillary was the Pres and Obama the VP, they’d be unstoppable and steamroll into the White House with the largest democratic party majority since, well since probably forever.” [/QUOTE] That seems unlikely. I expect it would be regarded as selling out by quite a few Obama supporters, who’d vote for some third party or not at all. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/44 "2008-02-14T12:17:16Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] Funny in all of this impassioned debate, no one is saying “ya know, if Hillary was the Pres and Obama the VP, they’d be unstoppable and steamroll into the White House with the largest democratic party majority since, well since probably forever.” Nope, it’s all about \*my \* candidate. Or pools say my candidate could beat McCain but your’s won’t… [/QUOTE] Mostly because if Hillary ran as Obama’s VP, he would win much more narrowly over McCain and the Democratic majority in Congress would be smaller with her on the ticket in either spot. ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/45 "2008-02-14T12:43:38Z")
It’s simple really. I’m a small-government, civil-liberties, no-deficit, world-is-watching kind of voter. I feel like I would make a natural Republican, but I also have a strong belief that the President needs to be a statesman, and so I’ve never supported G.W. Bush, whom I regard as barely literate and stupidly stubborn. I supported McCain in the 2000 primaries when I felt like he stood for change. Today I support Barack Obama, because I feel that my current priorities for a President are: (1) We need a statesman to restore our standing in the world (2) We need to remove the random extra-legal bullshit that Bush/Cheney have established (torture, extraordinary renditions, revocation of habeas corpus) (3) We need to take extraordinary measures to save the economy (4) …and then we need to do all the other stuff that keeps America ticking. I support Obama because I feel he’d be outstanding at the first two items, and would look for innovative and bold ideas to make the third item work. An excellent staff – perhaps including Sen McCain as SECDEF or Sen Clinton as Chief of Staff? – could help make this work. I think Hillary would be a failure on the first count, a holy terror on the second, and would tax-and-spend her way to the third count. She’d probably be excellent at the fourth item. If she tried to get Obama for VP, I hope that he would consider it, because given his wife’s position on a second run for President, that’s the only way we’ll ever see him sitting in the big chair. I think McCain would do well on the first count, would absolutely stop torture, and would use traditional conservative measures (cut spending!) to accomplish the third item. He might not be Hillary’s equal at the last item, but I feel like I can at least trust him not to install a bunch of Bush lackeys and cronies to do the job. So my answer to the OP is simple: I’d vote for McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/46 "2008-02-14T15:03:57Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] Funny in all of this impassioned debate, no one is saying “ya know, if Hillary was the Pres and Obama the VP, they’d be unstoppable and steamroll into the White House with the largest democratic party majority since, well since probably forever.” Nope, it’s all about \*my \* candidate. Or pools say my candidate could beat McCain but your’s won’t… [/QUOTE] For that to be appealing in any way, you’d have to think Hillary Clinton would make a good president. I don’t, and I think a lot of other people don’t. I don’t want to live under a Hillary Clinton presidency, and I don’t want to see Obama hitch his name to her wagon only to have it sullied by 4-8 years of association with her. It’s not about getting somebody with a D by their name in the White House at any cost, I’ve voted that way before but I’m not doing it again. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/47 "2008-02-14T15:30:22Z")
[QUOTE=China Guy] Funny in all of this impassioned debate, no one is saying “ya know, if Hillary was the Pres and Obama the VP, they’d be unstoppable and steamroll into the White House with the largest democratic party majority since, well since probably forever.” [/QUOTE] As a resident of Illinois, I’d rather see Obama keep his Senate seat than play Constitutionally Mandated Bench Warmer to the Clinton co-presidency. I’ve heard 3rd party suggestions that he could run for Illinois governor to pick up executive experience as well which he’d probably be sure to win and couldn’t fuck up any worse than our current state chief executive. Not an option if he’s VP since the election will be in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/48 "2008-02-14T16:23:05Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] With the exception of another Bush term, I can’t imagine anything worse for our country than either her or McCain in the White House, and if those are our only choices, I’m not sure I could stay. [/QUOTE] Please. I support Obama, as well, but getting carried away with statements like these doesn’t really help matters or stay particularly true to what Obama is trying to stand for. I seriously doubt McCain or Hillary would even begin to approach Bush in terms of disastrous policies and destroying of freedoms. And there are much, much worse options for President, including those that have been (sorta) in the running, like the Republican runner-up Huckabee. The man doesn’t even believe in evolution! Can you imagine that type of attitude towards science being reflected in national policy? And he’s publicly stated that he wants to bring the Constitution more in line with the Bible! The man’s a nutter, and he was a semi-viable candidate for a while! As for the OP, it would depend on how big the margin of victory for pledged delegates was. If under 20 or so, I wouldn’t really care, and would still vote for the Dem. nominee. If it’s 50 or more, then I’d probably just vote third party, or write in Obama (assuming he’s the one who gets super’d out). Anything in between, I’m not sure. Note that I’m not actually frightened of a McCain presidency (despite many misgivings about the man), which is the only reason why I would use my vote as a statement to the Dems. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/49 "2008-02-14T16:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] And you know what? I’d feel exactly the same if the tables were turned. I’d be disappointed and pissed at the DNC, but I would _accept_ it and fight for the contests that count. Thems the breaks. [/QUOTE] You and I have certainly exchanged our share of barbs over the years. And so I wanted to let you know that I very much admire this attitude and approach. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/50 "2008-02-14T16:45:10Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] **Obama Wins Popular Vote; Superdelegates Pick HRC - What Do You Do?** [/QUOTE] Cry. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/51 "2008-02-14T17:00:32Z")
I’m not a Democrat, but I might as well be for all the Republicans I’ve voted for in the last 16 years. Mindful that it’s there party and not mine, I suppose I would shrug my shoulders and do what I’d do if she won outright: hold my nose and vote for Clinton. When I walk into the polling place, I’m not looking to punish one party or another for whatever stupid things they’ve done. I’m voting for whomever I think will be best for the country (or will do the least harm to it) for the next four years. As of right now, I’m thinking Obama - Clinton - McCain, in that order. I hope the Dems agree with me. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/52 "2008-02-14T17:04:58Z")
Well, according to my calculation, using CNN delgate count numbers for committed and superdelegates who have expressed a preference, if the remaining elected delegates are split evenly, HRC would have to get 55% of the remainins superdelegates and that would give her 57% of all of the superdelegates. To me that is just not right. I could understand if it was close and the superdelegates differed slightly percentage-wise from the popular vote. Butthat kind of gap would be wrong. And don’t get me started if they decide to count Florida and Michigan. ---
**Author:** ![Genghis\_Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/45deac/32.png) [@Genghis\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Genghis_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/53 "2008-02-14T17:10:44Z")
. . . and I know that it’s “their” party, not “there” party . . . :smack: ---
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/54 "2008-02-14T18:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] And don’t get me started if they decide to count Florida and Michigan. [/QUOTE] Jeez, I forgot about those…what happens if **they** get seated?? Where are the numbers at? ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/55 "2008-02-14T18:44:57Z")
[QUOTE=Airman Doors, USAF] I’ve said numerous times, long before this became a genuine issue, that the Democrats would lose their moral authority. For eight years they have talked about the Republicans and how they stole the elections in 2000 and 2004. Were they to usurp the mandate given to them by members of their own party I don’t see how they could ever claim that anything is illegitimate ever again. … [/QUOTE] Absolutely well said. I completely support a political party using whatever internal rules they wish to select their candidate, and they would have every right to wield the superdelegate club to force in Hillary. However, the moral hypocrisy of doing so while running valueless primaries and caucuses would forever foul my view of the party and guarantee that I would never associate my political preferences with or register under that party ever again. Forever an Independent! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/56 "2008-02-14T19:01:39Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] What would really be the effects on the party, and the party’s rules, of an outcome this year in which Senator Obama wins the majority of popular vote delegates, but Senator Clinton wins the nomination? [/QUOTE] This has happened before and not that long ago. After the Carter administration debacle when the Party leaders decided they needed more influence on the outcome of the nomination process, Gary Hart edged Mondale in the popular vote and Mondale secured the 1984 nomination through unpledged delegates. No one here seems to remember that, so why should it be different this time ? ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/57 "2008-02-14T19:03:41Z")
Well, things might just get more interesting. The [Quinnipiac](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1142) poll has Hillary with a pretty big lead in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I can’t find any Texas polls, but if she wins those three it swings back her way. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/58 "2008-02-14T19:11:08Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] This has happened before and not that long ago. After the Carter administration debacle when the Party leaders decided they needed more influence on the outcome of the nomination process, Gary Hart edged Mondale in the popular vote and Mondale secured the 1984 nomination through unpledged delegates. No one here seems to remember that, so why should it be different this time ? [/QUOTE] I think Modale had more delgates though, just not enough to secure the nomination. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/59 "2008-02-14T19:21:55Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] You and I have certainly exchanged our share of barbs over the years. And so I wanted to let you know that I very much admire this attitude and approach. [/QUOTE] Thanks. Seriously, I wouldn’t _want_ my candidate of choice to “win” under those circumstances. I’d be ashamed. [QUOTE=NurseCarmen] Well, things might just get more interesting. The [Quinnipiac](http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x2882.xml?ReleaseID=1142) poll has Hillary with a pretty big lead in Ohio and Pennsylvania. I can’t find any Texas polls, but if she wins those three it swings back her way. Maybe. [/QUOTE] No, I would call it “more interesting” if she were polling _better_ than she had been in those contests. However, the lead she’s currently enjoying is _smaller_ than the lead she’s had in previous weeks. _And_ there are still quite a few unaccounted-for delegates in those polls. _And_ that spread still isn’t big _enough_. Even her own campaign acknowledges that there’s simply no way she’s going to gain _enough_ pledged delegates, even with wins in those states plus Texas, for her to overcome the lead he has right now. That’s why their focus is still so heavy on the superdelegates. > [@](#): > > [Obama’s Lead in Delegates Shifts Focus of Campaign](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/us/politics/14delegates.html?hp) > > Mrs. Clinton’s advisers acknowledged that it would be difficult for her to catch up in the race for pledged delegates even if she succeeded in winning Ohio and Texas in three weeks and Pennsylvania in April. They said the Democratic Party’s rules, which award delegates relatively evenly among the candidates based on the proportion of the vote they receive, would require her to win by huge margins in those states to match Mr. Obama in delegates won through voting. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534/60 "2008-02-14T19:39:41Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] Even her own campaign acknowledges that there’s simply no way she’s going to gain _enough_ pledged delegates, even with wins in those states plus Texas, for her to overcome the lead he has right now. [/QUOTE] Even assuming we are not counting superdelegates, I just do not understand how that can be true. Just going by delegates claimed in primaries and caucuses, Obama’s lead is just over one hundred delegates. There’s still well over 1500 in play, and with some very large states coming up it’s perfectly possible for Clinton to make up the gap. Poll after poll shows Clinton well ahead in Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio. Huge double digit leads. If the primaries actually came back with the leads the polls are describing, those three states alone would put Clinton into the lead in elected delegates, never mind superdelegates. I mean, Obama has a lot of momentum, but it’s just crazy to say Clinton can’t win enough pledged delegates. Of course she can. Obama’s lead is very slim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-wins-popular-vote-superdelegates-pick-hrc-what-do-you-do/437534.md?page=4)