# Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463 "2016-06-15T21:02:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/21 "2016-06-15T22:54:04Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > A new argument I have heard is that because of the “Global crash in 2008, adding this extreme amount of national debt was justified.” My question for you, is that true? Is the decline that happened in 2008 a just cause for pumping more national debt into this country than every other president combined? With the caveat that I’m a centrist Republican who didn’t vote for him. The American Investment and Recovery Act was an application of Keynesian principles for dealing with a recession. In addition social safety net programs are structured in such a way that they automatically stimulate by increasing spending during downturns. Did it work? Here’s a review of some of the economic literature in a [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/did-the-stimulus-work-a-review-of-the-nine-best-studies-on-the-subject/2011/08/16/gIQAThbibJ_blog.html) article. The other major option was of course austerity - reducing government spending in response to revenue drops caused by the recession. Europe’s largely followed that model. It’s had problems for some of the countries involved. Here’s an interesting [article](http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/does-austerity-work-or-does-it-make-things-worse/) that covers some of the issues and successes, while discussing some of the situations where it might be the most appropriate solution. Of course there’s a host of mixed options that could include targeted stimulus in high multiplier areas, austerity in others, and/or tax increases (with their added slowing of the economy during a recession.) Effectively we did a time mixed program with early stimulus followed by the sequester cuts forcing austerity. None of the partisan spin I’ve seen really does the issue justice. Obama at least seems to be closer to factual. His statement do put things in overly simplistic terms that fit a 30 second sound bite for a short attention span electorate while avoiding the information that doesn’t fit his narrative. He’s a politician after all and stars on the stage in short attention span political theater. Do some reading outside of directly partisan sources and make your own call. I tend towards longer term fiscal responsibility and stimulus (or at least not austerity) during recessions. Economics is complicated. Gte outside the hyper-partisan bubble that tries to argue overly simplistic positions. There’s some dark humor in the fact that simple partisan positions has the American right effectively siding with leftist Europeans on economic issues in response to the housing bubble recession. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/22 "2016-06-15T22:57:19Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > I have met a great many people that said “I voted for Obama, but I regret it now” Coming to the conclusion that there is nothing that can be said to justify Obama’s actions, whether it be on international trade, terror, or domestic social issues. Many people know that Obama has added more to the national debt than every other president combined. A common liberal counterargument is that he was dealing with fallout from the Bush presidency. When debating these people, they almost always say they did not know about the national debt, they did not know about the executive actions, they did not know what a constitution is and the vital role it plays for our country, they did not know of the ACORN and 800,000 Mickey Mouse votes for Obama in Florida, they did not know of the health insurance companies being forced to drop out of the healthcare marketplace due to Obamacare’s affordable care act and the drop in premium costs for citizens but the spike in costs for the providers. So what’s your plan for stopping Acorn in the next election? Is it in a constitution somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/23 "2016-06-15T23:06:17Z")
What was that part about hats? ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/24 "2016-06-15T23:07:03Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > I have met a great many people that said “I voted for Obama, but I regret it now” Amazing coincidence; I just read an article about the rhetorical technique you’re using, either consciously or unconsciously. Trump himself uses it constantly as a way of distancing himself from his own baseless, ridiculous assertions. Seriously, read [this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/%e2%80%98a-lot-of-people-are-saying-%e2%80%99-how-trump-spreads-conspiracies-and-innuendos/ar-AAh0eUD) and tell me you don’t sound just like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/25 "2016-06-15T23:11:55Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Seriously, read [this](http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/%e2%80%98a-lot-of-people-are-saying-%e2%80%99-how-trump-spreads-conspiracies-and-innuendos/ar-AAh0eUD) and tell me you don’t sound just like Trump. how do we know it’s NOT??? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/26 "2016-06-15T23:12:28Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Here in the UK we know what a constitution is (even though we don’t have a written one.) > Surely every American knows about their Constitution - who on earth are you talking to? There’s almost 320 million of us. Based on personal experience with other seemingly obvious pieces of basic information about our system of government, I’d bet on the side of us not all knowing. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/27 "2016-06-15T23:27:43Z")
[The Onion again.](http://www.theonion.com/article/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-c-2849)😉 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/28 "2016-06-15T23:37:57Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > …due to Obamacare’s affordable care act and the drop in premium costs for citizens but the spike in costs for the providers. And if they had, I’m sure those Obama voters would be _aghast_ that costs for health care providers went up while prices for people went down. Aghast! Will no one speak for our embattled health insurance companies? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/29 "2016-06-15T23:48:39Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > I have met a great many people that said “I voted for Obama, but I regret it now” Coming to the conclusion that there is nothing that can be said to justify Obama’s actions, whether it be on international trade, terror, or domestic social issues. Many people know that Obama has added more to the national debt than every other president combined. A common liberal counterargument is that he was dealing with fallout from the Bush presidency. When debating these people, they almost always say they did not know about the national debt, they did not know about the executive actions, they did not know what a constitution is and the vital role it plays for our country, they did not know of the ACORN and 800,000 Mickey Mouse votes for Obama in Florida, they did not know of the health insurance companies being forced to drop out of the healthcare marketplace due to Obamacare’s affordable care act and the drop in premium costs for citizens but the spike in costs for the providers. > > A new argument I have heard is that because of the “Global crash in 2008, adding this extreme amount of national debt was justified.” My question for you, is that true? Is the decline that happened in 2008 a just cause for pumping more national debt into this country than every other president combined? > > [http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Barack-Obama-in-Kenya-006.jpg](http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Barack-Obama-in-Kenya-006.jpg) People tell you that they didn’t know what a constitution is and the vital role it plays in our county, and you still give any credence to anything else they say about politics? ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/30 "2016-06-16T00:12:00Z")
I’m one of the 70 million people who voted for Obama in 2008, and one of the 66 million who voted for him in 2012. I do not regret voting for him. I am disappointed a bit because he was not as liberal as I was hoping, but I’m not sitting around wishing I voted for someone else. I’m starting to agree with Paul [Krugman](http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/in-defense-of-obama-20141008), Obama wasn’t as liberal as people hoped but he did a good job overall. The fact that insurers are dropping out of the ACA doesn’t mean the ACA is a bad law. The problem is our health care system costs 2x as much as every other wealthy nation. Until that gets fixed, health care will be a major problem. We do need to address the national debt. I recommend we do what California did to escape their budget crunch. Raise taxes and cut spending. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/31 "2016-06-16T00:16:05Z")
Obama currently has pretty good approval ratings, even with the latest Fox News poll (51% approval). Much, MUCH better than GW Bush, at this stage of his 2 term mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/32 "2016-06-16T00:18:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Obama is leaving the country Aha! Proof that Obama hates America! This is just the break the Romney campaign needs! ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/33 "2016-06-16T00:35:26Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > IIs the decline that happened in 2008 a just cause for pumping more national debt into this country than every other president combined? Obama didn’t do that, but Reagan did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/34 "2016-06-16T00:40:09Z")
What’s up with that middle name “Hussein” anyway? Do people even know that’s his middle name??? Wake up sheeple!!! ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/35 "2016-06-16T00:47:56Z")
> [@Randolph](#): > > I have met a great many people that lie. …ESPECIALLY in Construction… ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/36 "2016-06-16T00:54:22Z")
“How do we know he’s not?” Well, for one thing, the OP can construct full sentences. So there’s that! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/37 "2016-06-16T00:59:29Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > And if they had, I’m sure those Obama voters would be _aghast_ that costs for health care providers went up while prices for people went down. Aghast! > > Will no one speak for our embattled health insurance companies? Every Republican Congressman, and I’m sure a number of Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![IBuildEm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f475e1/32.png) [@IBuildEm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IBuildEm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/38 "2016-06-16T01:31:08Z")
I take it most of the members on this message board are primarily left leaning. Is there anyone on this board that can justify the OP, instead of trying to defend it? Im here to get more talking points whem debating these liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/39 "2016-06-16T01:34:28Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > I take it most of the members on this message board are primarily left leaning. > > Is there anyone on this board that can justify the OP, instead of trying to defend it? Im here to get more talking points whem debating these liberals. _You_ wrote the OP-can _you_ justify it? edited to add: And why did you link to that particular picture? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2016, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463/40 "2016-06-16T01:38:39Z")
> [@IBuildEm](#): > > I take it most of the members on this message board are primarily left leaning. > > Is there anyone on this board that can justify the OP, instead of trying to defend it? Im here to get more talking points whem debating these liberals. This is probably the place to try out your talking points. Or to learn, if you’d like. Maybe Obama’s not as bad as you thought – and there are plenty of folks here who’d love to explain why they think he’s actually been a good President. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama/757463.md?page=3)