# ObamaCare and the young adult question **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879 "2013-10-10T15:42:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/21 "2013-12-05T17:30:40Z")
> [@davida03801](#): > > Well, as predicted the young invincibles are turning away, and I quote. > > "Mounting opposition to ObamaCare among young adults is creating a new crisis for the White House. > > While the federal enrollment website [HealthCare.gov](http://HealthCare.gov) appears to be improving by the day, polls show the “young invincibles” key to making the law work are becoming less likely to enroll." > [http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/192132-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment](http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/192132-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment) It really shouldn’t surprise anyone. The penalty for not signing up is trivial, something like $95/year. That’s less than one month’s premiums in most cases. From the POV of a “young invincible,” it’s a no-brainer that they should just pay the penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/22 "2013-12-05T17:32:44Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Why isn’t the following a good strategy for a typically healthy young person? > > Don’t sign up for coverage, and pay the penalty (assuming, as reported, that this is substantially less than the cost of coverage). If you develop some sort of non-trivial problem, you then sign up (one of the big selling points is “no denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions”). If & when you judge the problem to be fixed, you drop coverage until the next one arises. I don’t see any reason why this wouldn’t work. This is precisely why healthcare companies always used to exclude pre-existing conditions: so people couldn’t pull stunts like this. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/23 "2013-12-05T17:40:14Z")
Well, all I can think about with “get it only when you need it!” is: Say I’ve just been involved in a horrific car accident. I won’t be in any shape to start filling out paperwork and calling people in order to get insurance instated, and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be instated within 24 hours anyway. Welcome to the full emergency room bills and more. Yeah…no. That does not sound smart at all, especially if what most young’uns need is the catastrophic sort of coverage - the exact sort of coverage you need within a moment’s notice, not 30 days later. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/24 "2013-12-05T17:45:50Z")
In another thread, someone suggested that coverage under the ACA would only be available during open enrollment periods, much as is true with most employment-based coverage. So if the open enrollment period is in November and you discover that you’ve got a massive brain tumor in March, what are you going to do? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/25 "2013-12-05T17:47:39Z")
Pretend the tumor is a baby and you’ve had a qualifying life event? ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/26 "2013-12-05T18:05:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So if the open enrollment period is in November and you discover that you’ve got a massive brain tumor in March, what are you going to do? Die, probably, which is what most people with massive brain tumors do whether or not they’ve got insurance. I expect to see many young people just pay the penalty. For most young healthy people, individual insurance was already available, and they didn’t buy it. The penalty is a bit of an incentive (it effectively lowers the marginal cost of buying insurance), but it’s not large enough for a few years to really spur things on. Maybe they didn’t know they could get insurance before and all the press about Obamacare has made them aware. Or maybe they feel a sense of civic duty to make those insurance pools more balanced. But people _do_ respond to incentives, and the health insurance deal for young healthy people (particularly young healthy men) is pretty bad. They’re greatly overpaying to subsidize everyone else. Just like Social Security and Medicare, we’ve added yet another massive social program that disproportionately taxes the young to pay for the old. Because old people vote. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/27 "2013-12-05T18:06:49Z")
From the [Healthcare.gov website](https://www.healthcare.gov/glossary/open-enrollment-period/), “For coverage starting in 2014, the Open Enrollment Period is October 1, 2013–March 31, 2014. For coverage starting in 2015, the Open Enrollment Period is November 15, 2014–January 15, 2015.” ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/28 "2013-12-05T18:12:14Z")
My question is where does the penalty money go? To the insurance companies? Also, how does it make sense that lower-income people are expected to start paying a $100+ (or +++) monthly premium, just to get repaid with a tax credit in April? How does that help them with the new monthly expense right now? ---
**Author:** ![Rollo\_Tomasi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58956e/32.png) [@Rollo\_Tomasi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rollo_Tomasi)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/29 "2013-12-05T18:16:18Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > It really shouldn’t surprise anyone. The penalty for not signing up is trivial, something like $95/year. That’s less than one month’s premiums in most cases. From the POV of a “young invincible,” it’s a no-brainer that they should just pay the penalty. Just to clarify, it’s $95 or 1% of your yearly income, whichever amount is larger. And that’s only for the first year of the program; in year 2, it’s $325 or 2%, and in year 3, it’s $695 or 2.5%. ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/30 "2013-12-05T19:08:54Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Die, probably, which is what most people with massive brain tumors do whether or not they’ve got insurance. > > I expect to see many young people just pay the penalty. > > For most young healthy people, individual insurance was already available, and they didn’t buy it. The penalty is a bit of an incentive (it effectively lowers the marginal cost of buying insurance), but it’s not large enough for a few years to really spur things on. > > Maybe they didn’t know they could get insurance before and all the press about Obamacare has made them aware. Or maybe they feel a sense of civic duty to make those insurance pools more balanced. But people _do_ respond to incentives, and the health insurance deal for young healthy people (particularly young healthy men) is pretty bad. They’re greatly overpaying to subsidize everyone else. > > Just like Social Security and Medicare, we’ve added yet another massive social program that disproportionately taxes the young to pay for the old. Because old people vote. I can tell you right now the reason I didn’t buy health insurance is because it was going to be catastrophic to my wallet is what, not because I didn’t want it or because I thought I didn’t need it. All the companies in my area were saying to individually insure me, a healthy young adult, it would be about $500+ a month for catastrophic, $1200+ for basic insurance. I looked into what pools I could finagle myself into and ended up not eligible for any of them. I also made too much money for anything like medicaid. Compared to those prices ACA prices are like a dream. Of course, my employer does not offer benefits - I’m sure it’s not the same feeling looking at ACA prices for those who already obtained insurance that way. Anyway all I can say is I am certainly properly incentivized - because I’m one of the exact sort of people they made this ACA for. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/31 "2013-12-05T23:28:47Z")
My 21st birthday started at 06:00 with acute appendicitis - rush to hospital, discuss for an hour, and the surgeon pulls it that afternoon. There was no time in there for “buy insurance”. Same thing 20+ years later when I hemorrhaged and was written off as dead - maybe the social women (who are these people, anyway) could have whipped out a tablet and punched in the data and gotten on-the-spot-coverage, but I doubt that the rule makers don’t foresee this strategy and make the sign-up process such as to defeat this. No insurance-at-the-ER counter, just press a thumb on the pad and you’re covered for 100% of everything in exchange for 1 month’s premium. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/32 "2013-12-06T00:53:45Z")
I thought young people up to 26 were covered by there parents insurance plan? ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/33 "2013-12-06T02:01:00Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I thought young people up to 26 were covered by there parents insurance plan? How many have parents who actually have insurance? I know I don’t. My daughter is 24 and a few months ago spent several hundred dollars to go to the ER for a simple UTI because no doctor would see her without insurance or payment up front. She had no money so the ER was the only place she could get treated and billed. She’ll be paying that 40 bucks a month a long time before it’s paid off, but at least she didn’t die of kidney failure. We are so glad she’ll have insurance so she never has to go through this again. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/34 "2013-12-06T18:40:19Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > My 21st birthday started at 06:00 with acute appendicitis - rush to hospital, discuss for an hour, and the surgeon pulls it that afternoon. > > There was no time in there for “buy insurance”. > Same thing 20+ years later when I hemorrhaged and was written off as dead - maybe the social women (who are these people, anyway) could have whipped out a tablet and punched in the data and gotten on-the-spot-coverage, but I doubt that the rule makers don’t foresee this strategy and make the sign-up process such as to defeat this. > No insurance-at-the-ER counter, just press a thumb on the pad and you’re covered for 100% of everything in exchange for 1 month’s premium. The fact that there are sudden events that won’t be covered doesn’t invalidate the “wait until you get sick, then buy insurance” plan. It does mean that there’s the potential to have a sudden expense that’s not covered. But what won’t happen is that you’ll find yourself with a life-long condition that requires expensive treatment that isn’t covered. Now, worst case is you have 1 year of expensive treatment that’s not covered, then you buy insurance. This significantly changes the incentives, and it makes the expected value of buying insurance when you’re young and healthy considerably worse. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/35 "2013-12-06T19:57:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I thought young people up to 26 were covered by there parents insurance plan? I haven’t looked into the details, but don’t the children have to be either living with their parents or in college? And even if parents have insurance, and the requirements are met, having your family on your coverage costs more. More employers are only covering the employee’s insurance, or only the employee and a spouse. Or only covering a percentage of the cost. So some 25 year olds can get a free ride, but others can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/36 "2013-12-06T20:19:30Z")
No, the children do not need to be living with their parents or in college. From [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov): > [@](#): > > Can children stay on a parent’s plan until age 26? > > If a plan covers children, they can be added or kept on the health insurance policy until they turn 26 years old. > > Children can join or remain on a plan even if they are: > > ``` > married > not living with their parents > attending school > not financially dependent on their parents > eligible to enroll in their employer’s plan > > ``` > > How to get coverage for adult children > > Adult children may be enrolled during a plan’s open enrollment period or during other special enrollment opportunities. The employer or insurance company can provide details. > > Under-26-year-olds can be signed up directly in new Marketplace plans. Be sure to include him or her on the list of people to be covered. > > Questions? Call 1-800-318-2596, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. (TTY: 1-855-889-4325) ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/37 "2013-12-06T20:36:13Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > Well, all I can think about with “get it only when you need it!” is: Say I’ve just been involved in a horrific car accident. I won’t be in any shape to start filling out paperwork and calling people in order to get insurance instated, and I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be instated within 24 hours anyway. Welcome to the full emergency room bills and more. Yeah…no. That does not sound smart at all, especially if what most young’uns need is the catastrophic sort of coverage - the exact sort of coverage you need within a moment’s notice, not 30 days later. What is to prevent going to an ER, getting treated, then not paying the bill? ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/38 "2013-12-06T22:15:33Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > No, the children do not need to be living with their parents or in college. From [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov): Cool. My kids are too old to qualify, but that will accommodate a lot more people. > [@Bone](#): > > What is to prevent going to an ER, getting treated, then not paying the bill? Fear of getting ones credit score gutted. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/39 "2013-12-06T22:25:13Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What is to prevent going to an ER, getting treated, then not paying the bill? Even today, hospitals (and doctors’ offices) require you to present ID when seeking treatment. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879/40 "2013-12-06T22:25:27Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > What is to prevent going to an ER, getting treated, then not paying the bill? The desire to protect your credit? Having a conscience? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-and-the-young-adult-question/670879.md?page=3)