# Obamacare is eliminating all those crappy individual policies, so it's really okay, right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052 "2013-11-16T12:17:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/121 "2013-11-19T22:53:16Z")
I can’t imagine a scenario where the Republicans would allow an increase. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/122 "2013-11-19T22:57:58Z")
About two seconds after they decide it is working so well they should take credit for it. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/123 "2013-11-20T00:27:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I oppose hooking up millions more Americans on government handouts. This would be a principled reason for opposing medicaid expansion in your state. I disagree with the principle, but can see an application of it there. But by the same principle, you should favor the ACA for the 25 states not expanding medicaid, since there the biggest change is that people have to pay premiums and copays, rather than relying on the safety net in event of serious illness. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/124 "2013-11-20T00:55:01Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This would be a principled reason for opposing medicaid expansion in your state. I disagree with the principle, but can see an application of it there. > > But by the same principle, you should favor the ACA for the 25 states not expanding medicaid, since there the biggest change is that people have to pay premiums and copays, rather than relying on the safety net in event of serious illness. ACA hooks millions more people that are not on Medicaid on government handouts (aka “subsidies”). Remove them and I will not object as much (although still object because of excessive government regulation). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/125 "2013-11-20T01:07:57Z")
Does anyone know how much these subsides add up to and where the money is supposed to come from? It seems like everyone and his uncle Henry is eligible. Well, a bit of an exaggeration, but it does seem like most families will be eligible, since the limit is up north of $90k for family of four. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/126 "2013-11-20T01:41:28Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Does anyone know how much these subsides add up to and where the money is supposed to come from? I recommend reading the New York Times. The heart of it, in the form of the New York Times Latest News Blog, is just $1.99 a month for any model Kindle. At this price, opinion articles are omitted, which you may find a plus 😉 End of advertisement. One source is the 3.8 percent increase in capital gains taxes for high income individuals. Another is cuts to the [Disproportionate Share Hospital payments](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disproportionate_share_hospital) which compensate hospitals for people don’t pay their bills. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/127 "2013-11-20T02:18:53Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I recommend reading the New York Times. The heart of it, in the form of the New York Times Latest News Blog, is just $1.99 a month for any model Kindle. At this price, opinion articles are omitted, which you may find a plus 😉 > > End of advertisement. > > One source is the 3.8 percent increase in capital gains taxes for high income individuals. > > Another is cuts to the [Disproportionate Share Hospital payments](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disproportionate_share_hospital) which compensate hospitals for people don’t pay their bills. Don’t know if this is supposed to be included in what you said, but there’s also a 3.8% tax on home sales for “high income” people, after the first $500,000. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/128 "2013-11-20T04:37:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > But there is a sliver of hope - since this is just the beginning. Further technical site failures, half-assed “solutions” like recent Obama’s turnaround or the two bills in Congress, combined with the sticker shock of high deductibles for those that signed up that will hit in Jan-Apr, and the jump in premiums and deductibles/OOP expenses for the next year that will most probably happen right around Sept-Oct 2014, right in time for the elections, will be fun to watch. To add to this post - I just found out from talking to a few physician friends that in general the physician networks that the Obamacare-exchange plans have are much narrower than the other plans’. Apparently in order to cut costs, insurance companies are really skimping on payments to doctors on these plans, and a lot of doctors, especially ones that are well booked, are not accepting patients with the Obamacare-exchange plans. Another thing to add to the list of things above. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/129 "2013-11-20T05:18:15Z")
No getting around it, if the insurance companies are skimping on payments to make more money, that’s clearly Obama’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/130 "2013-11-20T05:58:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No getting around it, if the insurance companies are skimping on payments to make more money, that’s clearly Obama’s fault. I’m not sure I can weight “publicly traded companies are trying to make the most profit they can within the regulations” as something that should have been a surprise to anyone…really at any time in the last 100 years. No matter the law you champion, you shouldn’t be able to come back and be able to wash yourself of the results of that law just because the companies are trying to maximize profit within that regulation’s guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/131 "2013-11-20T06:05:40Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > I’m not sure I can weight “publicly traded companies are trying to make the most profit they can within the regulations” as something that should have been a surprise to anyone…really at any time in the last 100 years. No matter the law you champion, you shouldn’t be able to come back and be able to wash yourself of the results of that law just because the companies are trying to maximize profit within that regulation’s guidelines. It’s a pretty good situation for the insurance companies - they have a captive clientele (the clients must go through the exchange to get the government handout) that doesn’t have much experience choosing the plans and, when signing up, probably will not choose the plans based on the breadth of the network. So they can pay the doctors a pittance, ensuring that only a few will be on the network, and present “cheap” plans to that captive audience. All until those proudly-Obamacare-insured will have to try to find a doctor to treat them and find out that [2/3 of the doctors they call will not take them](http://pnhp.org/blog/2013/09/16/exchange-plans-have-sharply-limited-networks/). ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/132 "2013-11-20T06:18:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It’s a pretty good situation for the insurance companies - they have a captive clientele (the clients must go through the exchange to get the government handout) that doesn’t have much experience choosing the plans and, when signing up, probably will not choose the plans based on the breadth of the network. So they can pay the doctors a pittance, ensuring that only a few will be on the network, and present “cheap” plans to that captive audience. > > All until those proudly-Obamacare-insured will have to try to find a doctor to treat them and find out that [2/3 of the doctors they call will not take them](http://pnhp.org/blog/2013/09/16/exchange-plans-have-sharply-limited-networks/). Eh, I’m actually fairly certain the practice will backfire on the insurance companies, though. They’ll get it for a year, by the middle of next year, people will be screaming about how they have to wait for the heat death of the universe to see the one doctor in the middle of the Sahara that accepts their plan, and Congress will make some sort of change mandating that insurance companies allow use of an insurer’s nationwide network that has at least 50% of their network on the plan, or something. I really don’t see this particular money making scheme being a long-term problem. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/133 "2013-11-20T06:20:30Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > Eh, I’m actually fairly certain the practice will backfire on the insurance companies, though. They’ll get it for a year, by the middle of next year, people will be screaming about how they have to wait for the heat death of the universe to see the one doctor in the middle of the Sahara that accepts their plan, and Congress will make some sort of change mandating that insurance companies allow use of an insurer’s nationwide network that has at least 50% of their network on the plan, or something. > > I really don’t see this particular money making scheme being a long-term problem. It doesn’t need to be. Right at the time that people will be screaming, the election campaign will be all ramped up. Oh and good luck getting Republicans in the House to help Democrats by “fixing” anything about Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/134 "2013-11-20T06:25:07Z")
BTW, a good indication of just how damaging this is - Obama, who supposedly [“embraced the term Obamacare”](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/08/obama-embraces-the-term-obamacare/1#.UoxVH-L3Mgc) earlier, is now [avoiding referring to it by that name](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/barack-obama-obamacare-affordable-care-act-health-care-law-100034.html?hp=l18). ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/135 "2013-11-20T06:29:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It doesn’t need to be. Right at the time that people will be screaming, the election campaign will be all ramped up. Oh and good luck getting Republicans in the House to help Democrats by “fixing” anything about Obamacare. I know you want it shoved out the door like an ugly date, but I really wish the Republicans would sit down and have an honest discussion on health care. As it stands, they avoid the question like the plague and haven’t seriously put up their own health care options to compete with the ACA. if they worked towards actually helping the system, it would probably solve most issues people have with the provision of health care. But something needs to be done about the health care situation in our country, even if the ACA was a law that never should have been enacted. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/136 "2013-11-20T07:00:57Z")
> [@Farin](#): > > I know you want it shoved out the door like an ugly date, but I really wish the Republicans would sit down and have an honest discussion on health care. As it stands, they avoid the question like the plague and haven’t seriously put up their own health care options to compete with the ACA. if they worked towards actually helping the system, it would probably solve most issues people have with the provision of health care. I am not a Republican. My ideas about improving the health care crisis have no chance to ever be realized, so why bother even talking about them. Might as well talk about world peace or nanobots cruising through people’s bodies and fixing everything. > [@](#): > > But something needs to be done about the health care situation in our country, even if the ACA was a law that never should have been enacted. “Something has to be done. This is something. So this has to be done.” No, it doesn’t have to be. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/137 "2013-11-20T11:24:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > BTW, a good indication of just how damaging this is - Obama, who supposedly [“embraced the term Obamacare”](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/08/obama-embraces-the-term-obamacare/1#.UoxVH-L3Mgc) earlier, is now [avoiding referring to it by that name](http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/barack-obama-obamacare-affordable-care-act-health-care-law-100034.html?hp=l18). I was pretty surprised to see Obama go on the record, in an interview yesterday, saying he needed to “remarket and rebrand” it. ---
**Author:** ![Farin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e79b87/32.png) [@Farin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farin)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/138 "2013-11-20T12:28:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I am not a Republican. I never said you were. I was talking about the Republicans reaching across the aisle and trying to make the law better. I could have made it it’s own sentence for clarity. > [@Terr](#): > > My ideas about improving the health care crisis have no chance to ever be realized, so why bother even talking about them. Might as well talk about world peace or nanobots cruising through people’s bodies and fixing everything. We have cell phones because of the popularization of ideas of a tiny communication device that you took everywhere from Star Trek in the 1960s. Ideas are always needed, even if they are unlikely to succeed any time in the near-term future. > [@Terr](#): > > “Something has to be done. This is something. So this has to be done.” > > No, it doesn’t have to be. Nothing has to be done? There are many, many reasons that health care in this country is currently poor. High costs, government interference in the market, insurance company interference in the marker, public company interference in the market, declining PCP participation, the expanding time needed by doctors for compliance to just about everyone (insurance companies, government requirements), as well as medical tort issues. Yes, _something_ needs to be done. The ACA wasn’t the correct answer for any of this, but the answer still needs to be worked out. Throwing up our hands is like throwing a tantrum as a child. It helps no one, solves no problem, and wastes our valuable time. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/139 "2013-11-20T12:36:44Z")
Obama certainly needs to do something to fix things. To put it mildly, his fellow Democrats [are not best pleased with him.](http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/190844-obama-hits-new-low-with-dems-at-capitol) > [@](#): > > President Obama’s relationship with congressional Democrats has worsened to an unprecedented low, Democratic aides say. > > They are letting it be known that House and Senate Democrats are increasingly frustrated, bitter and angry with the White House over ObamaCare’s botched rollout, and that the president’s mea culpa in a news conference last week failed to soothe any ill will. > > Sources who attended a meeting of House chiefs of staff on Monday say the room was seething with anger over the immense damage being done to the Democratic Party and talk was of scrapping rollout events for the Affordable Care Act. > > “Here we are, we’re supposed to be selling this to people, and it’s all screwed up,” one chief of staff ranted. “This either gets fixed or this could be the demise of the Democratic Party. > > “It’s probably the worst I’ve ever seen it,” the aide said of the recent mood on Capitol Hill. “It’s bad. It’s really bad.” How could a normally astute politician screw this up so badly? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052/140 "2013-11-20T16:05:48Z")
All we need to do is repeal it, re-pass the same thing under a name like Republicancare or Freedomcare, and this absurd obstructionism will be a thing of the past - no? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-is-eliminating-all-those-crappy-individual-policies-so-its-really-okay-right/674052.md?page=8)