# Obamacare may have saved the nation from bankruptcy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 7, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548 "2010-08-07T20:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/61 "2010-08-11T08:19:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > For the first time in the history of our country, the United States has mandated that citizens purchase a product. Instead of the government and its leaders doing something about the root causes of the expense of medical care, they went this chickenshit route and mandates that everyone must own an insurance policy. Basically, the government is going in to the insurance game. Yea! Not. > > The reason American healthcare is so fucked up is because of the GOVERNMENT, INSURANCE COMPANIES, and WELFARE BUMS. Illegal aliens or welfare mothers having multiple children. People who spent their lives throwing away their money on crap who are now broke who cry “Healthcare is a right”, and demands that they be cared for. > > It costs about $100,000 dollars to attend medical school. That’s outrageous. Then to the people who graduate, must by stiffling malpractice insurance because of greasy lawyers who make money advertising on afternoon TV promising anyone a check if they have been “sick or injured”, no matter how frivilous the cause. > > Medicaid and Medicare takes from young workers and gives it off to the elderly. Ok, sounds great on paper. However, our parents generation has been one of the prosperous not only in the United States, but in the history of man. 99% of the elderly can pay their own medical bills. If there was no insurance whatsoever, prices would be much lower. If the Mexican border was sealed like it should be, there would be billions saved in hospital visits. > > Please show me all the elderly, sick and destitute people before 1930 who died on the streets because there was no social security, medicare, aid to irresponsible mothers with ugly children, Section 8 and all that other garbage that working people have to pay for. > > It’s not time to “gloat” at all. Some people are going to get wealthy from this nightmare while the rest of us suffer. And fuck you very much for voting in this clown. Yep. You’re pretty fucking stupid. Or I’m being wooshed. Too late to tell. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/62 "2010-08-11T10:44:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > For the first time in the history of our country, the United States has mandated that citizens purchase a product. You’re really upset about long haul truckers being forced to buy insurance, then? > **[Commercial Truck Insurance Filings](https://www.progressivecommercial.com/commercial-auto-insurance/truck-insurance/truck-insurance-filings/)** > > Progressive Commercial offers state and federal filings, which show the government that you have the right amount of truck insurance protection. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/63 "2010-08-11T14:57:39Z")
[http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/health-care-execs-get-huge-paychecks/make-it-rain/?om\_rid=NHhWm0&om\_mid=\_BMYpXJB8R$Xarg&](http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/health-care-execs-get-huge-paychecks/make-it-rain/?om_rid=NHhWm0&om_mid=_BMYpXJB8R$Xarg&) Of course there are those who think execs deserve all they can steal from a system that is supposed to be providing heath care. The execs are jacking up your rates so they can get fabulously wealthy. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/64 "2010-08-11T14:59:18Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > For the first time in the history of our country, the United States has mandated that citizens purchase a product. Instead of the government and its leaders doing something about the root causes of the expense of medical care, they went this chickenshit route and mandates that everyone must own an insurance policy. Basically, the government is going in to the insurance game. Yea! Not. > > The reason American healthcare is so fucked up is because of the GOVERNMENT, INSURANCE COMPANIES, and WELFARE BUMS. Illegal aliens or welfare mothers having multiple children. People who spent their lives throwing away their money on crap who are now broke who cry “Healthcare is a right”, and demands that they be cared for. > > It costs about $100,000 dollars to attend medical school. That’s outrageous. Then to the people who graduate, must by stiffling malpractice insurance because of greasy lawyers who make money advertising on afternoon TV promising anyone a check if they have been “sick or injured”, no matter how frivilous the cause. > > Medicaid and Medicare takes from young workers and gives it off to the elderly. Ok, sounds great on paper. However, our parents generation has been one of the prosperous not only in the United States, but in the history of man. 99% of the elderly can pay their own medical bills. If there was no insurance whatsoever, prices would be much lower. If the Mexican border was sealed like it should be, there would be billions saved in hospital visits. > > Please show me all the elderly, sick and destitute people before 1930 who died on the streets because there was no social security, medicare, aid to irresponsible mothers with ugly children, Section 8 and all that other garbage that working people have to pay for. > > It’s not time to “gloat” at all. Some people are going to get wealthy from this nightmare while the rest of us suffer. And fuck you very much for voting in this clown. What ,you never heard of Social security? Why do you claim that is not a mandate? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/65 "2010-08-11T17:01:15Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > > > For the first time in the history of our country, the United States has mandated that citizens purchase a product. Instead of the government and its leaders doing something about the root causes of the expense of medical care, they went this chickenshit route and mandates that everyone must own an insurance policy. Basically, the government is going in to the insurance game. Yea! Not. > > > > The reason American healthcare is so fucked up is because of the GOVERNMENT, INSURANCE COMPANIES, and WELFARE BUMS. Illegal aliens or welfare mothers having multiple children. People who spent their lives throwing away their money on crap who are now broke who cry “Healthcare is a right”, and demands that they be cared for. > > > > It costs about $100,000 dollars to attend medical school. That’s outrageous. Then to the people who graduate, must by stiffling malpractice insurance because of greasy lawyers who make money advertising on afternoon TV promising anyone a check if they have been “sick or injured”, no matter how frivilous the cause. > > > > Medicaid and Medicare takes from young workers and gives it off to the elderly. Ok, sounds great on paper. However, our parents generation has been one of the prosperous not only in the United States, but in the history of man. 99% of the elderly can pay their own medical bills. If there was no insurance whatsoever, prices would be much lower. If the Mexican border was sealed like it should be, there would be billions saved in hospital visits. > > > > Please show me all the elderly, sick and destitute people before 1930 who died on the streets because there was no social security, medicare, aid to irresponsible mothers with ugly children, Section 8 and all that other garbage that working people have to pay for. > > > > It’s not time to “gloat” at all. Some people are going to get wealthy from this nightmare while the rest of us suffer. And fuck you very much for voting in this clown. > > Yep. You’re pretty fucking stupid. Or I’m being wooshed. Too late to tell. It’s quite the revelation that all Catholics, Mormons and other folks who have large families are either illegals or welfare mothers and that all their children are ugly. Also, isn’t it against the rules now to tell other posters “fuck you very much”? Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/66 "2010-08-13T05:06:01Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Looking at the current USA system in world terms, it’s pretty much impossible for any changes to make it more expensive. Basically, it’s as expensive as a mass consumption product can be without it becoming an elite product. That’s just silly. You can make changes that’ll make it more expensive - just have terrorists cause a smallpox epidemic. This country stopped vaccinating people in 1972, which leaves a huge precentage of the workforce completely exposed to the disease. Not only are people 40 and under a big part of the workforce, they’re also doing almost all of the childbearing too (only 2% of babies are born to women 40+), so that means a severe reduction in future generations to contribute to SOC & FICA too. Sure, the costs will eventually go down in the long term as the population dies out, but in the short term medicare would be a bigger burden per taxpayer, and no doubt obamacare would be too, since Obama has recently agreed that the mandate is a tax. Unlikely hypotheticals aside, I’m sure there are even plausible ways to increase costs too. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/67 "2010-08-13T10:28:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > > > For the first time in the history of our country, the United States has mandated that citizens purchase a product. Instead of the government and its leaders doing something about the root causes of the expense of medical care, they went this chickenshit route and mandates that everyone must own an insurance policy. Basically, the government is going in to the insurance game. Yea! Not. > > > > The reason American healthcare is so fucked up is because of the GOVERNMENT, INSURANCE COMPANIES, and WELFARE BUMS. Illegal aliens or welfare mothers having multiple children. People who spent their lives throwing away their money on crap who are now broke who cry “Healthcare is a right”, and demands that they be cared for. > > > > It costs about $100,000 dollars to attend medical school. That’s outrageous. Then to the people who graduate, must by stiffling malpractice insurance because of greasy lawyers who make money advertising on afternoon TV promising anyone a check if they have been “sick or injured”, no matter how frivilous the cause. > > > > Medicaid and Medicare takes from young workers and gives it off to the elderly. Ok, sounds great on paper. However, our parents generation has been one of the prosperous not only in the United States, but in the history of man. 99% of the elderly can pay their own medical bills. If there was no insurance whatsoever, prices would be much lower. If the Mexican border was sealed like it should be, there would be billions saved in hospital visits. > > > > Please show me all the elderly, sick and destitute people before 1930 who died on the streets because there was no social security, medicare, aid to irresponsible mothers with ugly children, Section 8 and all that other garbage that working people have to pay for. > > > > It’s not time to “gloat” at all. Some people are going to get wealthy from this nightmare while the rest of us suffer. And fuck you very much for voting in this clown. > > **Yep. You’re pretty fucking stupid.** Or I’m being wooshed. Too late to tell. I’m stupid? You are the one who voted for that fool in the White House. You are the ones who want to fuck up the best health care in the World. You are the imbecile who does not believe in personal responsibility (like buying your own fucking health care, while giving the rest of us the choice to buy or not.) The more you let the government take care of you, the less freedom you have. I am sick and tired the last 20 years of losing my freedoms to protect myself from preceived harm. You have no counter argument, except to being insulting. Well sir, have an argument and present it. You being an asshole makes me know that I am right. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/68 "2010-08-13T13:09:39Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > > [@Lobohan](#): > > > > **Yep. You’re pretty fucking stupid.** Or I’m being wooshed. Too late to tell. > > I’m stupid? You are the one who voted for that fool in the White House. You are the ones who want to fuck up the best health care in the World. You are the imbecile who does not believe in personal responsibility (like buying your own fucking health care, while giving the rest of us the choice to buy or not.) Personal responsibility? You choose to skip buying insurance, get hit by a car, and accumulate $100,000 in medical bills you can’t afford. The cost gets passed on to me. Why am I paying for your personal irresponsibility? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/69 "2010-08-13T18:45:17Z")
I congratulate \*\*Captain Midnight \*\* for his brilliant parody of right wing anti-HCR arguments. If he lives near New York, he should send this to Colbert to try to get on his writing staff. Let’s examine the humor. > [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > For the first time in the history of our country, the United States has mandated that citizens purchase a product. Instead of the government and its leaders doing something about the root causes of the expense of medical care, they went this chickenshit route and mandates that everyone must own an insurance policy. Basically, the government is going in to the insurance game. Yea! Not. Here he references the idiot Tea Partiers who stand up in meetings and demand that government keep its hands of Medicare. Saying that government mandates are government insurance, while actual government run insurance is not, is brilliant. Ignoring that we don’t have much of a choice about paying Medicare taxes - and thus purchasing a product, is pretty funny also. Bravo, sir! > [@](#): > > The reason American healthcare is so fucked up is because of the GOVERNMENT, INSURANCE COMPANIES, and WELFARE BUMS. Illegal aliens or welfare mothers having multiple children. People who spent their lives throwing away their money on crap who are now broke who cry “Healthcare is a right”, and demands that they be cared for. And here, as true right wingers do, he contradicts his statement in paragraph 1 in paragraph 2. I do have to deduct a point or two for him using “welfare mother” instead of “welfare queen” - perhaps the intelligent person behind the parody is peeking through here. > [@](#): > > It costs about $100,000 dollars to attend medical school. That’s outrageous. Then to the people who graduate, must by stiffling malpractice insurance because of greasy lawyers who make money advertising on afternoon TV promising anyone a check if they have been “sick or injured”, no matter how frivilous the cause. This is a nice touch. He’s complaining about how the free market in medical schools is too expensive. He leaves it for the reader to see the obvious solution - government control of tuition - or perhaps government paying tuition to increase the supply. The subtle point here is that inside each right winger there is a Socialist trying to get out. The malpractice screed is mandatory, though the TV lawyer bit is a nice new addition to a hoary old rand. > [@](#): > > Medicaid and Medicare takes from young workers and gives it off to the elderly. Ok, sounds great on paper. However, our parents generation has been one of the prosperous not only in the United States, but in the history of man. 99% of the elderly can pay their own medical bills. If there was no insurance whatsoever, prices would be much lower. If the Mexican border was sealed like it should be, there would be billions saved in hospital visits. Nice indication of how much of the right doesn’t even understand what insurance is, and nice ignoring the fact that the elderly have paid for Medicare all their lives. Plus a callout to the true conservatives, who we don’t see much of these days, who think medical costs got frozen sometime around 1935, and who are rich enough with good enough insurance to never actually look at a hospital bill. The obligatory racist slap at Mexicans goes without saying. > [@](#): > > Please show me all the elderly, sick and destitute people before 1930 who died on the streets because there was no social security, medicare, aid to irresponsible mothers with ugly children, Section 8 and all that other garbage that working people have to pay for. Another reference to the conservatives rosy view of the past, taken from watching movies where the worse impact of the Depression on the characters is having to look at Apple Annie. Maybe a subtle reference to Archie Bunker singing about wanting a man like Herbert Hoover again? I applaud the innovative “ugly children” insult. Don’t think about this or your mind will explode. Are responsible mothers with ugly children okay? How about irresponsible ones with beautiful children? Writing that teeters on the edge of total absurdity is difficult, and this is well done. > [@](#): > > It’s not time to “gloat” at all. Some people are going to get wealthy from this nightmare while the rest of us suffer. And fuck you very much for voting in this clown. Half on half on this relatively weak ending. Implying that anyone getting wealthy is ever wrong is almost rational, and has no place in a tirade like this. Suffering because you now have access to affordable healthcare is a nice touch though. And it really should have been “socialist clown” don’t you think? But overall, a nice job. Maybe Conservapedia, the Internet’s leading humor side, would take it. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548/70 "2010-08-14T00:55:35Z")
To get an idea of how wildly off the funding estimates were for this whole thing, consider just the new high-risk plan. This is the temporary plan that is supposed to provide health care for high-risk people until 2014, when the new national high risk plan takes over. The upcoming mandate for individual care requires that pre-existing conditions be covered, so the government has to provide a plan that everyone can get into. It is _grossly_ under-funded: [Health Care Brief: Pre-Existing Condition Program](http://www.healthaffairs.org/healthpolicybriefs/brief.php?brief_id=21) > [@](#): > > Congress appropriated $5 billion to fund the new program through 2013. Approximately five to seven million Americans are estimated to lack health insurance and have a preexisting condition. But as with the existing state high-risk pools, only a fraction of those who need coverage are expected to enroll in the program. There is a range of estimates about how large that fraction will be. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO), for example, expects the program to have an average enrollment of 200,000 per year. Meanwhile, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) Office of the Actuary has estimated that as many as 375,000 Americans could gain coverage under the new program in 2010. > > High premiums are expected to be the main factor limiting enrollment of eligible adults. Even though premiums for the new program are likely to be less than those offered in the private market and in existing state-operated plans, they may still be unaffordable for some potential enrollees. > > Some estimates are that the $5 billion in funding could run out as early as 2011 if as many as 375,000 people enroll this year. The federal government has broad authority to make adjustments to the program to stave off any deficits. For example, HHS can simply stop taking applications for enrollment. If the costs of the program do end up exceeding the available funding, HHS may have to make other difficult decisions about how the program is structured, including increasing premiums. So this program may have been funded to only about 1/3 the level required. In fact, no one really knows, because no one knows how many people will take advantage of the plan. But it’s clear that it’s going to be much more expensive than previously thought. And in 2014, these people all have to be transitioned out of this plan and into private plans or the new high-risk pool. Many states already have high-risk pools that were intended to make sure that people with pre-existing conditions could find insurance. But they turned out to be so expensive that states had to raise premiums to the point where very few people actually even use them. Florida shut its high risk pool down years ago. Now imagine what the cost structure looks like when _everyone_ has to buy insurance and the government has to provide it. The government will have to fully subsidize many people who are very poor health risks. Let’s put this in perspective - The health actuary says that if 375,000 people join this pool, it will cost about 15 billion dollars to stay funding through 2013. That’s about 5 billion dollars per year. According to the LA times, about [57 million](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2010/05/just-how-many-people-have-preexisting-health-conditions-about-1-in-5.html) Americans have pre-existing conditions. Now, obviously this doesn’t mean that insuring them will cost 760 billion dollars per year, but it does indicate that this will be very, very expensive. We’re going to be seeing headlines about unexpected cost overruns and ‘tough choices’ for years to come. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-may-have-saved-the-nation-from-bankruptcy/549548.md?page=3)