# Obamacare questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 11, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697 "2012-11-11T18:58:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/41 "2012-11-13T16:20:44Z")
Umm, you guys do know that the math has been done many times, and that giving free health care for the indigent is hwaaay cheaper than the current system of treating them only in county ERs? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/42 "2012-11-13T16:23:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I thought that to prevent people not getting Obamacare until needed (zero reject) that there were fines (oooops according to SCOTUS - taxes) to be paid. What happens to beople that do not pay the fine/ Do they still get Obamacare when they have stage 3 cancer but have to pay the IRS? Nobody “gets Obamacare”. It’s an informal name for a federal law. I think the term you are looking for is “health insurance” or possibly “health insurance coverage”. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/43 "2012-11-13T16:31:25Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I sell Health insurance. The most expensive plan in my book for a guy in his 20s is $650. Is that what it costs for the guy with diabetes and cancer? ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/44 "2012-11-13T16:48:50Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Is that what it costs for the guy with diabetes and cancer? That’s the highest price in the portfolio regardless of health status. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/45 "2012-11-13T16:52:59Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I assume that means you either lied on your tax return, owe back taxes, or failed to file. Showing up at the hospital just sets off some sort of alarm for the IRS. Then you get signed up eventually and you will have a back tax bill if/when you are cured. After all, what happens if you end up in hospital while you are being audited or owe back taxes? What if you are Sal Slacker with no income? The “tax” is not a percentage of income but a flat fine. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/46 "2012-11-13T18:16:04Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What if you are Sal Slacker with no income? The “tax” is not a percentage of income but a flat fine. Then we’re back to the question of what precisely the rules in that state say. Does No-Income-Sal qualify for Medicare for the poor, or do his parents end up being responsible for him? Worst case he gets the minimal care (as happens to uninsured people now) and either files for bankruptcy or simply ignores the phone calls from collection agencies (assuming he has a phone handy). What happens now when the IRS fines someone who has no money to pay? They either write him off as a lost cause, or wait until he does have money. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/47 "2012-11-13T18:23:24Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I sell Health insurance. The most expensive plan in my book for a guy in his 20s is $650. Are you selling it to a government agency? I worked for a law enforcement agency and when I retired part of my retirement was a continuation of my medical insurance at no cost to me. Officers that were hired after 1994 (I was hired in 82) have to pay the full amount themselves when they retire. The amount is $1600. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The thing is, that’s not a bug; it’s a feature. The exchange model offers employees the opportunity to select coverage that works for them, rather than the one (or two) size fits all plans that most employers currently offer, while saving employers money. Win-win. I would love to see what some of you are fantasizing about when you rub one out. :rolleyes: Once insurance companies start paying out for folks with preexisting conditions like cancer or aids, their expenses are going to skyrocket and they will have to jack up their rates for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/48 "2012-11-13T18:42:56Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you selling it to a government agency? I worked for a law enforcement agency and when I retired part of my retirement was a continuation of my medical insurance at no cost to me. Officers that were hired after 1994 (I was hired in 82) have to pay the full amount themselves when they retire. The amount is $1600. You can retire in your 20s from law enforcement? > [@pkbites](#): > > Once insurance companies start paying out for folks with preexisting conditions like cancer or aids, their expenses are going to skyrocket and they will have to jack up their rates for everyone. Group plans generally already cover preexisting conditions like cancer and aids. People with preexisting conditions who are seeking individual plans (who can no longer be turned away) should, in theory, be offset by all the young healthy people who are now going to be forced to buy individual plans themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/49 "2012-11-13T18:52:56Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > What if you are Sal Slacker with no income? The “tax” is not a percentage of income but a flat fine. [According to this](https://www.bcbsri.com/BCBSRIWeb/pdf/Individual_Mandate_Fact_Sheet.pdf) (PDF), “individuals with income below the tax filing threshold” have an exception from the mandate. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/50 "2012-11-13T18:58:52Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Are you selling it to a government agency? I worked for a law enforcement agency and when I retired part of my retirement was a continuation of my medical insurance at no cost to me. Officers that were hired after 1994 (I was hired in 82) have to pay the full amount themselves when they retire. The amount is $1600. > e. I have before, yes. I find it very difficult to believe that a single, 20 year old would be charged $1600 a month for any Health insurance plan. Let alone an employer sponsered one. A retiree, especially with spouse or family I can believe. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/51 "2012-11-13T19:07:55Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Once insurance companies start paying out for folks with preexisting conditions like cancer or aids, their expenses are going to skyrocket and they will have to jack up their rates for everyone. The reason the pre-existing conditions can be eliminated is because the mandate makes it possible. The mandate means they increase the size of the risk pool. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/52 "2012-11-13T19:09:56Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I have before, yes. I find it very difficult to believe that a single, 20 year old would be charged $1600 a month for any Health insurance plan. Let alone an employer sponsered one. A retiree, especially with spouse or family I can believe. Checking the OPM cite, this could be for family benefits. Not for a indiv. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/53 "2012-11-13T19:11:28Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I would love to see what some of you are fantasizing about when you rub one out. :rolleyes: I can promise you it’s not the Heritage Foundation, the CBO, or any of the human resources consulting firms that are talking about this stuff. If you wanted people to explain Obamacare to you just so you could argue with them, perhaps you should have started this thread in GD. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/54 "2012-11-13T19:23:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Checking the OPM cite, this could be for family benefits. Not for a indiv. That would make more sense. The rates I have line up with opm and I also checked cal-pers which matches my experience. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/55 "2012-11-13T23:16:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The reason the pre-existing conditions can be eliminated is because the mandate makes it possible. The mandate means they increase the size of the risk pool. So what percentage of the, what, 20%?, uninsured are that way because they are single and think they are too healthy to need coverage? Vs. those who may have dependents but cannot afford th health care they need? Especially since most of the healthy 20-somethings with decent incomes are probably working for companies with actual health care plans? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/56 "2012-11-13T23:20:19Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I may be wrong, but it seems to me Sal Slacker is entitled to Medicaid, due to his lack of income and available money. So he is likely covered under those provisions. You don’t get Medicaid just because you’re unemployed with no assets. It’s pretty near impossible for an able-bodied adult to get Medicaid any more. Trust me, I know this from experience. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/57 "2012-11-13T23:20:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You don’t need an internal newsletter to figure this out. It’s pretty much taken as read in the industry that large numbers of employers are going to dump their employees on the exchanges. In fact, large numbers of employers were already going to be dumping their employees on _private_ exchanges, which were The Next Big Thing in employer-healthcare cost control. Now they won’t have to. > > The thing is, that’s not a bug; it’s a feature. The exchange model offers employees the opportunity to select coverage that works for them, rather than the one (or two) size fits all plans that most employers currently offer, while saving employers money. Win-win. It occurs to me that this is a bit misleading. Large (50+) employers will have to use private exchanges, at least until 2017. For now (well, 2014 on), only small (\<50) employers can use the state exchanges. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/58 "2012-11-13T23:33:44Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > So what percentage of the, what, 20%?, uninsured are that way because they are single and think they are too healthy to need coverage? > Vs. those who may have dependents but cannot afford th health care they need? I don’t know. Why would that matter? The point of insurance is to spread the cost among the whole pool, if the pool is composed of only people who greatly need it, it will provide no benefit. Even if someone feels they don’t need insurance they can still fall down the stairs, throw a clot, get cancer or deglove a hand in a garbage disposal. Thinking you don’t need insurance doesn’t mean you don’t need it. > [@](#): > > Especially since most of the healthy 20-somethings with decent incomes are probably working for companies with actual health care plans? Again, I don’t see what this has to do with the mandate making the elimination of pre-existing conditions possible. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/59 "2012-11-14T00:36:42Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > I worked for a law enforcement agency and when I retired part of my retirement was a continuation of my medical insurance at no cost to me. Officers that were hired after 1994 (I was hired in 82) have to pay the full amount themselves when they retire. The amount is $1600. Have they asked you to pay a part of it? The reason I ask is that a friend retired a dozen years ago or so as Chief of Police in a suburb of Cleveland. After 5 years, they started asking him to pay for part of the insurance. It got so expensive that he had to find a job until he hit 65 last year and could file for Medicare. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697/60 "2012-11-14T13:01:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If you wanted people to explain Obamacare to you just so you could argue with them, perhaps you should have started this thread in GD. Seconded. I’m reminded of Mencken’s definition of Puritanism as “the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy”. The OP seems to be suffering from the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be getting something for nothing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-questions/640697.md?page=4)