# Obamacare Wins **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 25, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444 "2015-06-25T15:04:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/41 "2015-06-25T18:23:37Z")
Also, he didn’t write it in any meaningful sense. He almost certainly did not choose the words at issue in this case. As to Roberts on _Chevron_, I agree that it’s a little ambiguous (irony alert). But I read it as buttressing rather than being necessary to the argument. Plus, in some sense, the whole discussion is dicta because the result would have been the same with or without Chevron. What changes, potentially, is the result in some future case in which the IRS changes its mind. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/42 "2015-06-25T18:27:21Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Fat Tony (aka “supreme court justice”) with his “Pure Applesauce” / “SCOTUScare” / “jiggery-pokery” (WTF?) dissent, pretty much saved the Repub’s from themselves. Now they can hem & haw against judicial tyrrany (I think Huckabee has already said that). > > Roberts on the majority surprised me. He’s got some long game strategy I reckon. I think this board, GD in particular, needs more use of “jiggery-pokery.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/43 "2015-06-25T18:29:28Z")
With regret, I’ll take that $100, Bricker… > **[Donate - Friends of the Israel Defense Forces](https://support.fidf.org/site/Donation2?df_id=1647&mfc_pref=T&1647.donation=form1)** > > FIDF provides educational, cultural, recreational, and social services programs and facilities to support the soldiers of the Israel Defense Forces. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/44 "2015-06-25T19:00:53Z")
At least, according to the Washington Post, which is generally no friend to conservatives > **[Republicans noisily outraged — and quietly relieved — over court decision](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-noisily-outraged--and-quietly-relieved--over-court-decision/2015/06/25/bba90998-1b47-11e5-93b7-5eddc056ad8a_story.html)** > > Obamacare ruling gives a reprieve to Republicans, who have not produced a health-care law alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/45 "2015-06-25T19:02:07Z")
Well, it’s a lot easier to talk about Repeal and Replace if you don’t actually have to come up with a replacement. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/46 "2015-06-25T19:06:06Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Especially with the guy who wrote the law on tape saying it was meant to be that way. He didn’t “write” the law. The law was drafted by various Obama administration officials and various Congresspeople and their staffers. Gruber obviously participated in its drafting, but he wasn’t the sole author of anything and a technical advisor wouldn’t draft legislation anyway. Perhaps you should go watch the Schoolhouse Rock video on how a bill becomes a law. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/47 "2015-06-25T19:12:29Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I’m happy for this, recently I hit a situation where only one part time job is keeping me up, I was prepared by getting the subsidies in Arizona for a year already when suddenly the E.Coli struck. > > Obamacare allowed me to get treatment for the infection that was very likely to get deadly if no treatment was available, and I did not had to fall into the poor house, in a few months I will get a better job and my wife will finally come to the US to a better job that I would get (the education field is not likely to get you rich nowadays) and it is likely that the subsides will not be needed then; but really, for many people that needs health care the prospect of taking away the only remedy that was politically feasible in such a pedantic manner was really dumb. > > IMHO the Republicans did dodge a bullet by not having to deal with all the people that would had demanded the states that did not set exchanges to do the right thing. > > However, many states still have to close the gaps that their stubbornness has caused by preventing the full implementation of the law in their locality. I’m glad you were able to get the care you needed. Your post made me remember this story from a few years ago: > **[The court saved my lifeline](https://www.latimes.com/opinion/la-xpm-2012-jun-29-la-oe-ward-health-care-decision-20120629-story.html)** > > The court saved my lifeline It’s still stunning to me that people would hate Obama so much that they hoped a beneficiary of ACA would die. But maybe I shouldn’t be so surprised. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/48 "2015-06-25T19:17:20Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > Fat Tony (aka “supreme court justice”) with his “Pure Applesauce” / “SCOTUScare” / “jiggery-pokery” (WTF?) dissent Makes you wonder what his wording was in the _first_ draft. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/49 "2015-06-25T19:30:12Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > He didn’t “write” the law. The law was drafted by various Obama administration officials and various Congresspeople and their staffers. Gruber obviously participated in its drafting, but he wasn’t the sole author of anything and a technical advisor wouldn’t draft legislation anyway. > > Perhaps you should go watch the Schoolhouse Rock video on how a bill becomes a law. Yeah, I kind of know already, but thanks for the suggestion. If you want me to replace the term ‘write’ with he was the architect of the law, as Pelosi and others have said on tape many times, then fine. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/50 "2015-06-25T19:44:27Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Yeah, I kind of know already, but thanks for the suggestion. > > If you want me to replace the term ‘write’ with he was the architect of the law, as Pelosi and others have said on tape many times, then fine. And what relevance is it? That law sat in and was altered by one congressional committee after another. It went back and forth between the Senate and the House with one alteration after another. It was scored by the CBO. The idea that statements (which contradict each other, BTW) from one technical adviser should carry weight over the people who actually drafted and scored and voted for the legislation is utter nonsense. But, who knows? Maybe Gruber secretly took over the identities everyone in Congress, their staffers, the staff of the CBO and the people drafting in the Obama administration. Maybe he’s like those creatures in the “The Puppet Masters” and everyone involved was controlled by his hive-mind just during the crafting of this legislation. We’re through the looking glass, here, people. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/51 "2015-06-25T19:49:26Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > And what relevance is it? That law sat in and was altered by one congressional committee after another. It went back and forth between the Senate and the House with one alteration after another. It was scored by the CBO. The idea that statements (which contradict each other, BTW) from one technical adviser should carry weight over the people who actually drafted and scored and voted for the legislation is utter nonsense. > > But, who knows? Maybe Gruber secretly took over the identities everyone in Congress, their staffers, the staff of the CBO and the people drafting in the Obama administration. Maybe he’s like those creatures in the “The Puppet Masters” and everyone involved was controlled by his hive-mind just during the crafting of this legislation. We’re through the looking glass, here, people. The point, of course, is that we have on tape an insider, very involved in the drafting of the law, saying explicitly that the language about States only being the ones who get subsidies was intentionally put in there to make for difficult political situations for Red State politicians. I don’t argue that others were involved in the law, but to say that he had nothing to do with it defies reality. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/52 "2015-06-25T19:54:01Z")
No, “the point, of course,” is that it doesn’t fucking matter what a non-Congressmember thought or hoped for. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/53 "2015-06-25T19:55:31Z")
Slightly on topic: Do I gather correctly from some things I’ve read today on Scotusblog that the justices actually read the opinions out loud, rather than just, I don’t know, having them handed out or posting them up on a server or something? Wonder how many decades it will be before the institution catches up on that tech. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/54 "2015-06-25T19:57:29Z")
> [@Ionizer](#): > > [Here’s an article](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/06/25/king_v_burwell_decision_john_roberts_explains_why_he_just_saved_obamacare.html) from [Slate.com](http://Slate.com) that has the last two paragraphs of Roberts’ that pretty clearly delineates why he went the way he did. I’d post the actual text, but it is in image-form in the article. Some of this has already been stated, but I thought showing his exact wording would be helpful. > > It’s the right way for SCOTUS to do things, in my very non-lawyer opinion. Gives me hope on future things, it does 🙂 That’s what I took out of it. The lawyers can find the language to justify their decisions but the overall question is whether this is something for SCOTUS to decide. They decided that it wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/55 "2015-06-25T19:58:15Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Slightly on topic: Do I gather correctly from some things I’ve read today on Scotusblog that the justices actually read the opinions out loud, rather than just, I don’t know, having them handed out or posting them up on a server or something? > > Wonder how many decades it will be before the institution catches up on that tech. 😃 My understanding is that reading the opinions is still the norm. I gather there are exceptions, and perhaps they edit for brevity, but yes, they read them out loud ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/56 "2015-06-25T19:58:52Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > The point, of course, is that we have on tape an insider, very involved in the drafting of the law, saying explicitly that the language about States only being the ones who get subsidies was intentionally put in there to make for difficult political situations for Red State politicians. > > I don’t argue that others were involved in the law, but to say that he had nothing to do with it defies reality. Everyone else, including the CBO which scored the law has the other opinion. What is more likely? That some adviser got mixed up in an on-the-fly interview, or that literally everyone else involved, including the people much more central to the issue, is wrong? There is some defying reality going on, but I think it’s on the other foot. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/57 "2015-06-25T20:01:48Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > This possibility existed before this decision, and it will continue to exist after this decision. Is there a decision where this kind of thing happened? ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/58 "2015-06-25T20:09:20Z")
Oh, [this is rich](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/scalia-dissent-obamacare-used-against-him). Scalia’s dissent on the original ruling in 20012 is used by Roberts against him. Delicious. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/59 "2015-06-25T20:09:39Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > The point, of course, is that we have on tape an insider, very involved in the drafting of the law, saying explicitly that the language about States only being the ones who get subsidies was intentionally put in there to make for difficult political situations for Red State politicians. Except he didn’t actually draft the law, did he? Nor did he score it and nor did he vote on it. > [@](#): > > I don’t argue that others were involved in the law, but to say that he had nothing to do with it defies reality. “Others were involved,” lol. But I didn’t say he had “nothing to do with it.” I said his _conflicting_ opinions aren’t relevant because he’s not the one who makes the laws. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444/60 "2015-06-25T20:09:47Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Is there a decision where this kind of thing happened? The concept is called '[Void for Vagueness’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Void_for_vagueness). There is actually another SCOUTS case pending this term that rests on the decision whether the statute is unconstitutionaly vague. I believe it’s the Armed Career Criminals Act. [Johnson v. United States](http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/johnson-v-united-states-3/). There is also the standing principle that if congress drafts a law in error, it is up to congress to fix the law, not the courts to interpret what congress meant. I actually forget the case that solidified that principle, but ironically it’s the one that the plaintiffs in this case thought would be persuasive. It wasn’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare-wins/723444.md?page=4)