# Obamacare **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364 "2019-10-06T19:46:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CHealy7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@CHealy7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CHealy7)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/1 "2019-10-06T19:46:58Z")
Five year on from its introduction, is it fair to say that this was a scandalous disaster? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/2 "2019-10-06T19:49:31Z")
Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/3 "2019-10-06T19:51:32Z")
It worked exactly as intended, americans still do not have universal healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/4 "2019-10-06T19:52:26Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/5 "2019-10-06T19:53:28Z")
[ACA insured millions of uninsured diabetics.](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2019-09-27/affordable-care-act-insured-millions-of-uninsured-diabetics) The only disaster is the piecemeal destruction of the Act by the coward in the White House. Reported for forum change. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/6 "2019-10-06T19:53:53Z")
> [@Fentoine\_Lum](#): > > It worked exactly as intended, americans still do not have universal healthcare. Thanks to the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/7 "2019-10-06T19:56:24Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/8 "2019-10-06T20:00:44Z")
Well, it’s not the screaming success Trumpcare would be, if that existed, that’s for sure. But on the other hand, Trump’s wall is gorgeous. What’s that? He hasn’t done that either? Shit fire. ---
**Author:** ![CHealy7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3ab097/32.png) [@CHealy7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CHealy7)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/9 "2019-10-06T20:01:09Z")
I was under the impression that the ACA was at least on a par with the Sestak Job Offer, Fast and Furious and the Bergdahl Swap. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/10 "2019-10-06T20:07:04Z")
> [@CHealy7](#): > > I was under the impression that the ACA was at least on a par with the Sestak Job Offer, Fast and Furious and the Bergdahl Swap. A historic change in the massively complex US health insurance system — a change that, despite being shrunk and shackled from the get-go (and later moreso) by the Republicans, still helped millions of Americans get insurance, plus helping millions more through pre-existing conditions, 20-something children living with parents, and more… …you’re comparing this to a scattered handful of minor policies or decisions that one might reasonably quibble with, but few level-headed folks would say are so serious or consequential as to be called “scandals”? ETA: You forgot the “tan suit.” And the “Marine holding the umbrella.” Now, THOSE were scandalous! ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/11 "2019-10-06T20:09:00Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > No. So not rattled heh. Yup, and the dems are doing the same thing again this time 'round. Kamala and Booker loves that big pharma $. Go see. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/12 "2019-10-06T20:11:15Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > ETA: You forgot the “tan suit.” And the “Marine holding the umbrella.” Now, THOSE were scandalous! Lest we forget, Michelle was photographed with bare…arms. ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/13 "2019-10-06T20:11:15Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > A historic change in the massively complex US health insurance system — a change that, despite being shrunk and shackled from the get-go (and later moreso) by the Republicans, still helped millions of Americans get insurance, plus helping millions more through pre-existing conditions, 20-something children living with parents, and more… > > …you’re comparing this to a scattered handful of minor policies or decisions that one might reasonably quibble with, but few level-headed folks would say are so serious or consequential as to be called “scandals”? > > ETA: You forgot the “tan suit.” And the “Marine holding the umbrella.” Now, THOSE were scandalous! Health"care" in america is an utterly bipartisan scandal. **Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System** [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064) \*\*World Health Organization’s Ranking of the World’s Health Systems \*\*Some people fancy all health care debates to be a case of Canadian Health Care vs. American. Not so. According to the World Health Organization’s ranking of the world’s health systems, neither Canada nor the USA ranks in the top 25. Improving the Canadian Healthcare System does not mean we must emulate the American system, but it may mean that perhaps we can learn from countries that rank better than both Canada and the USA at keeping their citizens healthy. [http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/](http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/) **U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World** The U.S. health care system has been subject to heated debate over the past decade, but one thing that has remained consistent is the level of performance, which has been ranked as the worst among industrialized nations for the fifth time, according to the 2014 Commonwealth Fund survey 2014. The U.K. ranked best with Switzerland following a close second. The Commonwealth Fund report compares the U.S. with 10 other nations: France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Sweden, New Zealand, Norway, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the U.K. were all judged to be superior based on various factors. These include quality of care, access to doctors and equity throughout the country. Results of the study rely on data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the World Health Organization and interviews from physicians and patients. > **[U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World](https://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-care-ranked-worst-in-the-developed-world/)** > > The U.S. ranks lowest among 11 wealthy nations in terms of “efficiency, equity and outcomes" according to the Commonwealth Fund report **HOW BAD IS U.S. HEALTH CARE? AMONG HIGH-INCOME NATIONS, IT’S THE WORST, STUDY SAYS** As Republicans struggle to agree on a replacement for the Affordable Care Act, the Commonwealth Fund has rated the U.S. health care system as the worst among the 11 developed nations it analyzed as part of an evaluation conducted every three years. The think tank also rated the U.S. health care system as the worst-performing of the nations analyzed when the last evaluation was released in 2014. > **[U.S. Health Care System Rated the Worst](https://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst-637114)** > > The U.S. also spends far more on health care than any other nation. **How does the quality of the U.S. healthcare system compare to other countries?** Bench-marking U.S. quality measures against those of similarly large and wealthy countries is one way to assess how successful the U.S. has been at improving care for its population, and to learn from systems that often produce better outcomes. The OECD has compiled data on dozens of outcomes and process measures. Across a number of these measures, the U.S. lags behind similarly wealthy OECD countries (those that are similarly large and wealthy based on GDP and GDP per capita).In some cases, such as the rates of all-cause mortality, premature death, death amenable to healthcare, and disease burden, the U.S. is also not improving as quickly as other countries, which means the gap is growing. > **[How does the quality of the U.S. health system compare to other countries? -...](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/quality-u-s-healthcare-system-compare-countries/#item-start)** > > Despite spending more money per capita on healthcare than any similarly large and wealthy nation, the United States has a lower life expectancy than peer nations and has seen worsening health outcomes since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.  ... ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/14 "2019-10-06T20:12:19Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Lest we forget, Michelle was photographed with bare…arms. A black woman can sure get under some folk’s skin. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/15 "2019-10-06T20:20:22Z")
Just some friendly advice, comrade: I wouldn’t go around these parts showing off that you’re so focused on “rattling” other posters. It could be taken the wrong way. The charitable interpretation of your posts is this: You sound like you want to revive Occupy Wall Street (and related movements), which helped to focus attention on the inequalities built into the system, and how most Democratic leaders were not going to do much, if anything, to fundamentally change the system, so we shouldn’t put too much faith in either major US party. Fine. I actually agree, basically. But right now we need to strip one of the major parties of its power, as soon as possible, for many reasons (shorter and longer term) — and your focus on the inequities of the system itself is just a distraction (unless you want to start a thread on that, as I suggested). How do YOU connect these two themes? Maybe you think that the fall of Trump should be accompanied by a rise — not of the Democrats (not even as just a “temporary caretaker until we’ve gotten back to normalcy”) — but rather the rise of some THIRD option, that would fundamentally change the system? We’d all love to see the plan! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/16 "2019-10-06T20:36:44Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Thanks to the GOP. Then can’t you just vote Democratic? Why can’t your party git-r-done? ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/17 "2019-10-06T20:39:56Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Just some friendly advice, comrade: I wouldn’t go around these parts showing off that you’re so focused on “rattling” other posters. It could be taken the wrong way. > > The charitable interpretation of your posts is this: You sound like you want to revive Occupy Wall Street (and related movements), which helped to focus attention on the inequalities built into the system, and how most Democratic leaders were not going to do much, if anything, to fundamentally change the system, so we shouldn’t put too much faith in either major US party. Fine. I actually agree, basically. > > But right now we need to strip one of the major parties of its power, as soon as possible, for many reasons (shorter and longer term) — and your focus on the inequities of the system itself is just a distraction (unless you want to start a thread on that, as I suggested). > > How do YOU connect these two themes? Maybe you think that the fall of Trump should be accompanied by a rise — not of the Democrats (not even as just a “temporary caretaker until we’ve gotten back to normalcy”) — but rather the rise of some THIRD option, that would fundamentally change the system? > > We’d all love to see the plan! 😉 Avoiding objective reality again to label again? Run-n-tell on me. Health"care" in america is an utterly bipartisan scandal. **Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System** [https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp0910064) **World Health Organization’s Ranking of the World’s Health Systems** Some people fancy all health care debates to be a case of Canadian Health Care vs. American. Not so. According to the World Health Organization’s ranking of the world’s health systems, neither Canada nor the USA ranks in the top 25. Improving the Canadian Healthcare System does not mean we must emulate the American system, but it may mean that perhaps we can learn from countries that rank better than both Canada and the USA at keeping their citizens healthy. [http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian...ealth-systems/](http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian...ealth-systems/) **U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World** The U.S. health care system has been subject to heated debate over the past decade, but one thing that has remained consistent is the level of performance, which has been ranked as the worst among industrialized nations for the fifth time, according to the 2014 Commonwealth Fund survey 2014. The U.K. ranked best with Switzerland following a close second. The Commonwealth Fund report compares the U.S. with 10 other nations: France, Australia, Germany, Canada, Sweden, New Zealand, Norway, the Netherlands, Switzerland and the U.K. were all judged to be superior based on various factors. These include quality of care, access to doctors and equity throughout the country. Results of the study rely on data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, the World Health Organization and interviews from physicians and patients. > **[U.S. Health Care Ranked Worst in the Developed World](https://time.com/2888403/u-s-health-c...veloped-world/)** > > The U.S. ranks lowest among 11 wealthy nations in terms of “efficiency, equity and outcomes" according to the Commonwealth Fund report **HOW BAD IS U.S. HEALTH CARE? AMONG HIGH-INCOME NATIONS, IT’S THE WORST, STUDY SAYS** As Republicans struggle to agree on a replacement for the Affordable Care Act, the Commonwealth Fund has rated the U.S. health care system as the worst among the 11 developed nations it analyzed as part of an evaluation conducted every three years. The think tank also rated the U.S. health care system as the worst-performing of the nations analyzed when the last evaluation was released in 2014. > **[U.S. Health Care System Rated the Worst](https://www.newsweek.com/united-states-health-care-rated-worst-637114)** > > The U.S. also spends far more on health care than any other nation. **How does the quality of the U.S. healthcare system compare to other countries?** Bench-marking U.S. quality measures against those of similarly large and wealthy countries is one way to assess how successful the U.S. has been at improving care for its population, and to learn from systems that often produce better outcomes. The OECD has compiled data on dozens of outcomes and process measures. Across a number of these measures, the U.S. lags behind similarly wealthy OECD countries (those that are similarly large and wealthy based on GDP and GDP per capita).In some cases, such as the rates of all-cause mortality, premature death, death amenable to healthcare, and disease burden, the U.S. is also not improving as quickly as other countries, which means the gap is growing. > **[Estimates suggest that Rx drugs will represent a larger portion of overall...](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/?chartbuilder_chart=estimates-suggest-that-rx-drugs-will-represent-a-larger-portion-of-overall-health-spending-beginning-in-2014)** ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/18 "2019-10-06T21:07:58Z")
> [@CHealy7](#): > > Five year on from its introduction, is it fair to say that this was a scandalous disaster? Depends. It was a tepid half measure promoted by (for lack of a nicer word) cowardly democrats who were terrified to make anyone angry. They watered it down so republicans, fox news, pharma, the insurance industry, hospitals and the AMA wouldn’t be mad at them. All they accomplished was the rich and republicans were mad at them anyway, but now their base was too demoralized to bother to vote for them in 2010. But it did help about 20 million people gain insurance. yeah for some of them, its shit insurance. Is someone spending 9% of their gross, pre tax income on a plan with a $5000 deductible, no out of network coverage and tons of exclusions and exceptions really a ‘winner’? Not really. It would be cheaper and easier to auto-enroll the uninsured into medicaid or medicare than to give them subsidies to buy private insurance. But that pisses off the medical industry (private insurance can’t compete with medicaid or medicare, and these programs offer lower reimbursements so less money for pharma, hospitals and doctors). The only true path to health reform is ballot initiatives on the state level. Even in states where democrats control 60-80% of state legislature seats and the governorship, democrats refuse to push for UHC. Even UHC based on places like switzerland which isn’t single payer. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/19 "2019-10-06T22:48:05Z")
I would agree, but when VT attempted it, they discovered it would be a fiscal disaster and abandoned the effort. Excess profit is just too baked into the system to succeed piecemeal. But I see no obvious solution. Canadian medicare was put in before medical care got so expensive and has adjusted gradually. It was tried first in one province (Sask.) and was wildly successful. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364/20 "2019-10-06T22:58:05Z")
> [@Fentoine\_Lum](#): > > Avoiding objective reality again to label again? Run-n-tell on me. Not sure why you felt the need to post this twice. Do not spam the boards posting the same thing multiple times. [/moderating] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamacare/841364.md?page=2)