# Obama's Ad on bin Laden, Romney: Fair or Foul? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 30, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415 "2012-04-30T15:09:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/41 "2012-05-01T04:25:21Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The line quoted in the ad in question is "“it’s not worth moving heaven and earth spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person”. The thrust of the quote was that killing Bin Laden was, in and of itself, not the\* only\* action that needed to be taken. > > [PolitiFact | Obama ad says Mitt Romney's view on killing bin Laden was 'it's not worth moving heaven and earth'](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/apr/30/barack-obama/obama-ad-says-mitt-romneys-view-killing-bin-laden/) > > Using that quote to paint Romney as actively opposed to killing OBL is misleading. First, the key quote is not the one you cite, but the one where Romney specifically attacked Obama’s declaration of willingness to launch a raid into Pakistan if a sufficiently valuable target were found there. Second, the claim is not that Romney is “actively opposed” to killing bin Laden, but that his stated positions raise doubts that he has the judgment and courage to actively _support_ doing so. Two distrortions in one statement – how very efficient of you. > [@](#): > > More to the point, it’s just hamhanded adwriting. When the truthiness-or-not of an ad becomes the topic, the ad has failed. The same implication could have been effectively made without coming close to the line. Oh, puh-leeze. A statement of truth “has failed” because the side inconvenienced by that truth squeals and tries to change the subject from the facts to the “controversy”? By this “logic”, the theory of evolution “has failed” because creationists won’t shut up and face reality. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/42 "2012-05-01T05:57:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I do think it’s interesting that nobody has mentioned that the argument in the ad is made by Bill Clinton. Obama only appears in still photos- most of the ad is Clinton talking to the camera. Yeah, I thought that was interesting too…especially since Clinton had chances at bin Laden and didn’t try it. That bit of irony noted, I think the ad is otherwise fair game. Green lighting that mission was a very ballsy move. If it went badly, Obama knew he’d catch hell for it, maybe even doom his chances for a second term. He did it anyway. I respect that, even though I hope Obama loses the election. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/43 "2012-05-01T06:02:07Z")
> [@platoon1016Guy](#): > > Obama promising to shutting down Guantanamo during the 2008 election, and then changing his mind once he got elected. You are incorrect; Obama in fact, as one of his first actions after inauguration, signed an [executive order to close Gitmo](http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-22/politics/guantanamo.order_1_detention-guantanamo-bay-torture?_s=PM:POLITICS) in one year. Then the Republicans whipped up a hissy fit of fear and fury over it, a passel of Democrats cravenly followed suit, and the poltroons in Congress passed [legislation blocking the closing.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/20/barack-obama-guantanamo-congress-veto) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/44 "2012-05-01T06:19:04Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The line quoted in the ad in question is “it’s not worth moving heaven and earth spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person”. The thrust of the quote was that killing Bin Laden was, in and of itself, not the\* only\* action that needed to be taken. > […] > Using that quote to paint Romney as actively opposed to killing OBL is misleading. I think the point they’re trying to make here is that Obama understands that some things are more important and bigger than columns in an actuarial table. Some things are worth fighting for even if the accountants say they’re not. Romney wasn’t so much “I’d never kill OBL” or “OBL doesn’t matter” but rather “My numbers tell me that OBL isn’t worth the risk:reward ratio” They’re drawing a distinction between someone who’ll do the right thing because it’s right versus someone who’ll do the right thing when there’s a net profit in it. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/45 "2012-05-01T06:59:32Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > You are incorrect; Obama in fact, as one of his first actions after inauguration, signed an [executive order to close Gitmo](http://articles.cnn.com/2009-01-22/politics/guantanamo.order_1_detention-guantanamo-bay-torture?_s=PM:POLITICS) in one year. Then the Republicans whipped up a hissy fit of fear and fury over it, a passel of Democrats cravenly followed suit, and the poltroons in Congress passed [legislation blocking the closing.](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/20/barack-obama-guantanamo-congress-veto) You’re absolutely right, because I chose the wrong words. Obama didn’t change his mind. More accurately, Obama made a promise (and got votes for something) he ultimately could not deliver on. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/46 "2012-05-01T07:50:10Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > especially since Clinton had chances at bin Laden and didn’t try it When was this? In [this interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNoN403tXU4) he claims he invested a lot of time into the Reagan announced war on terrorism. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/47 "2012-05-01T09:39:52Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > When was this? > > In [this interview](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNoN403tXU4) he claims he invested a lot of time into the Reagan announced war on terrorism. [NBC story](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4540958/ns/nbcnightlynews/t/osama-bin-laden-missed-opportunities/) [Story in The Telegraph](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1440359/Clinton-missed-chance-to-get-rid-of-bin-Laden.html) [ABC story](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2006/09/missed_opportun/) ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/48 "2012-05-01T10:36:45Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > First, the key quote is not the one you cite,. I cited the one _used in the ad_. If they had a better one and didn’t use it, that seems to support the idea that the ad was poorly designed. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/49 "2012-05-01T11:07:33Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > Fair. Romney’s statement, however one tries to spin it, indicates a level of risk-aversion that makes it questionable, at best, that he would have pulled the trigger given the geopolitical costs even if the operation succeeded and the risk of a Carteresque fiasco if it failed. Funny you should bring up Carter and “Desert One”. Carter made the same sort of ballsy decision that Obama did, except that it ended rather poorly. So? That’s the chance you take in super high-stakes geopolitics. These are tough operations and a bajillion things can go wrong. In Carter’s case, it went sideways. In Obama’s case it went swimmingly. Yay for Obama… but both men made the hyper-gutsy decisions that, IMO, were correct to make. Both knew the incredible risks to their presidencies, and both were willing to make the right call. Yet Jimmy gets no credit for his decision. Totally unfair. Funny, too… these guys are both considered by the knuckle-draggers to be “bleeding-heart liberal chicken shits; adverse to any aggressive military action that could lead to American bloodletting”… :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeah. Right . Let us never confuse from whom the true balls hang. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/50 "2012-05-01T11:22:15Z")
> [@emcee2k](#): > > Seems accurate and fair. What’s crazy, is that I actually agree with Romney here. Or, rather the Romney quoted in the ad, probably not current Romney. I’m not sure that this is what you’re implying here but, one \*could \*make the case that while it was nice to get Obama, we had no business doing so in a country we are not at war with-- i.e. we violated Pakistan’s sovereignty. Thing is, no one–certainly not Romney–will voice that complaint after the fact because crushing Osama’s terrorist ass was just too popular. Still, it’s a fair point to make (whether you personally agree with it or not). ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/51 "2012-05-01T12:07:46Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > we violated Pakistan’s sovereignty. Fuck Pakistan and their sovereignty. It’s not like they were ever going to get him, and it’s not like they’re going to actually do anything but bitch about us doing it. ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/52 "2012-05-01T12:55:29Z")
You’re damn straight Obama needs to run on killing OBL. It’s one Hell of an achievement, and the Republicans are just bitching because they can’t take credit for it. Obama is undeniably, indistinguishably in the right on this one and there isn’t a damn thing the GOP can say against it. Plus, it destroys the idea that Dems are weak militarily, which is a major boon for them. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/53 "2012-05-01T13:01:18Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Funny, too… these guys are both considered by the knuckle-draggers to be “bleeding-heart liberal chicken shits; adverse to any aggressive military action that could lead to American bloodletting”… :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Yeah. Right . > > Let us never confuse from whom the true balls hang. To be fair, Reagan made the ballsy decision to invade Grenada. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/54 "2012-05-01T13:09:22Z")
[QUOTE/=Oakminster;15020322] He did it anyway. I respect that, even though I hope Obama loses the election. [/QUOTE] I don’t want to derail the thread, but I found this interesting. I’d like to know why you want Obama to lose, given that you’re capable of giving him credit for the bin Laden kill. Not sure where I’d put it or what I’d call it but I think this would be an interesting thread. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/55 "2012-05-01T14:08:09Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Using that quote to paint Romney as actively opposed to killing OBL is misleading. He says there are limits on how much he would commit to killing bin Laden, and indicates that he wouldn’t have gone as far as Obama did. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable inference. He was wrong about the “another terrorist will take his place” thing, too. Al Qaeda has had trouble replacing bin Laden, and the data recovery that took place at his home was devastating for them. > [@](#): > > When the truthiness-or-not of an ad becomes the topic, the ad has failed. Nah. People will quibble with anything. It doesn’t mean the ad failed. The fact that Romney felt compelled to say the ad was fair but unfair tells you something. > [@Oakminster](#): > > Yeah, I thought that was interesting too…especially since Clinton had chances at bin Laden and didn’t try it. He did try it; he didn’t go far enough and finish the job. I didn’t want to take the thread off course but I did want to say something about that earlier. Maybe after the camera went off, he said something like “and ah wonder if ah could have finish him off in 1998 if I hadn’t weakened mahself politically by getting caught with my hand in the nookie jar.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/56 "2012-05-01T14:36:17Z")
> [@furt](#): > > I cited the one _used in the ad_. If they had a better one and didn’t use it, that seems to support the idea that the ad was poorly designed. Er, no; [the ad used both quotes](http://content.usatoday.com/communities/theoval/post/2012/04/obama-ad-watch-the-bin-laden-raid/1) (thus including as much evidence as could smoothly be fitted in, a sign of good design): > [@](#): > > The ad _features text from a 2007 Reuters news report in which Romney criticized Obama for vowing to strike at al-Qaeda targets inside Pakistan if necessary_. A videotape from a CNN report _cites Romney’s statement that “it’s not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions dollars just trying to catch one person.”_ > (emphasis added) So, your score is one failed attempt to address Point 1, and lack of even an attempt to address Point 2. Ball’s bouncing around in your court… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/57 "2012-05-01T14:59:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > He did try it; he didn’t go far enough and finish the job. I didn’t want to take the thread off course but I did want to say something about that earlier. Maybe after the camera went off, he said something like “and ah wonder if ah could have finish him off in 1998 if I hadn’t weakened mahself politically by getting caught with my hand in the nookie jar.” 😛 [Snopes says (quoting a WaPo article)…](http://www.snopes.com/rumors/clinton.asp) > [@](#): > > . . . the federal budget on anti-terror activities tripled during Clinton’s watch, to about $6.7 billion. After the effort to kill bin Laden with missiles in August 1998 failed - he had apparently left a training camp in Afghanistan a few hours earlier - recent news reports have detailed numerous other instances, as late as December 2000, when Clinton was on the verge of unleashing the military again. In each case, the White House chose not to act because of uncertainty that intelligence was good enough to find bin Laden, and concern that a failed attack would only enhance his stature in the Arab world. So he got burned and didn’t want to get burned again with another failed attempt. But as you say, he did try. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/58 "2012-05-01T15:08:38Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So he got burned and didn’t want to get burned again with another failed attempt. I’d dispute that characterization. They missed him by a slim margin and destroyed a training camp, and the bottom line is that they should have kept trying. Worrying about bin Laden’s prestige compared to the importance of capturing or killng him was stupid. I realize that’s a judgment made in hindsight, but their priorities were wrong. I’m not sure what would have happened on September 11th if they’d killed him - in 1998 it might’ve prevented the attack; in late 2000 probably not - and there are a lot of parties that share the blame there. Given the dysfunction in the intelligence community maybe some kind of attack was inevitable. But I think it’s very reasonable to point out that Clinton also had his chances and didn’t finish the job. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/59 "2012-05-01T15:26:55Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > To be fair, Reagan made the ballsy decision to invade Grenada. Say, how’s that Grenada Memorial coming along? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415/60 "2012-05-01T15:34:20Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > IMO the ad isn’t simply about who would/wouldn’t have gotten OBL. This is mostly about emasculating Romney; Obama is not so much taking credit for the successful raid as he is using it to–sorry for the metaphor, but it captures the idea exactly–bitch-slap Romney. If Mitt’s response is to whine or start combing thru the minutiae of the raid or his past statements, he will look weak in the face of Obama’s challenge, and that will be his real problem. If you doubt this, consider John Kerry’s response to the Swift Boaters; I think Kerry was hurt less by the number of people who actually believed the allegations (most of whom wouldn’t have voted for a Dem anyway) as he was by his apparent weakness regarding this attack on his “manhood”. IMO this weakness–regardless of the truth in the underlying allegations–inspired his opponents and demoralized his supporters. If Romney attacks the One Chance ad then all Obama has to do is whip out his Nobel Peace Prize, smile, and say nothing. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-ad-on-bin-laden-romney-fair-or-foul/620415.md?page=4)