# Obama's appointsments...oh yeah, big change **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 19, 2008, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515 "2008-11-19T20:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/81 "2008-11-22T01:44:14Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > I say Nita Lowey gets Hil’s spot. Does Gov. Paterson get to pick? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/82 "2008-11-22T02:28:01Z")
Obama had no choice but to pick Washington insiders. Obama’s not coming from a Governorship or big industry, where he might be able to call on a cadre of experienced, trusted professionals. He has no executive experience, which means he has no first-hand knowledge of the abilities and temperaments of the people he needs to help him. Therefore, the next best thing he can do is pick a bunch of old hands with strong track records. He really had no other choice. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/83 "2008-11-22T02:39:24Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Obama’s not coming from a Governorship or big industry, where he might be able to call on a cadre of experienced, trusted professionals. Didn’t Carter and Clinton bring people from GA and AR, respectively, and it backfired hugely on them? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/84 "2008-11-22T06:52:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Does Gov. Paterson get to pick? Yes. [The list of choices may be rather long.](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/22/nyregion/22york.html?_r=1) ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/85 "2008-11-22T07:27:38Z")
I am really pleased with the Geithner pick. The conventional wisdom was that Summers was more likely but I thought that Geithner was both better on the merits and someone who would work well with Obama. As NY Fed chairman Geithner brings detailed expertise on the financial crisis and will be ready on Day 1. Summers is very intelligent but he has been out of the loop in the last 8 years as far as economic policymaking is concerned and would have to spend some time learning the intricacies of the crisis. There are also question marks over his temperament and his choice would not have gone down well with the party base. Geithner is like Obama in several ways. He is young, very bright and has a great temperament. He also has an international outlook which I bet appealed to Obama. Like Obama he spent time abroad as a kid . He has studied Chinese and was the point man for the Treasury in the East Asian crisis. This is an excellent profile of Geithner: [http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=c85b418b-5237-4f54-891f-8385243162bd](http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=c85b418b-5237-4f54-891f-8385243162bd) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/86 "2008-11-22T10:02:16Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’m not at all an expert on Geithner, but I felt earlier that he was the right choice because he’s new, compared to Volker and Summers. Obama’s gone with experience in many areas and that’s a good move. Particularly if he’d picked Summers, though, I expected people to say “How is he going to guide the economy out of this crisis when he didn’t do anything to prevent it? Why is he the right pick now? This is just recycling.” Choosing someone “new” (but not inexperienced) seems more responsive to the current situation, and more forward-looking. > > I’m not sure what qualifies Richardson for commerce in particular, but since he endorsed Obama and there aren’t any other Latinos in the cabinet to this point you had to expect him to end up someplace. (I don’t bring up the Latino issue to suggest he’s unqualified, but Obama wanted a diverse cabinet and I’d heard this discussed.) > > To recap the potentials so far: > > Secretary of State: Sen. Hillary Clinton > Secretary of the Treasury: NY Fed Chairman Timothy Geithner > Secretary of Defense: no word, but Sec. Gates may stay on > Attorney General: former Deputy AG Eric Holder > Secretary of the Interior: unknown > Secretary of Agriculture: unknown > Secretary of Commerce: NM Gov. Bill Richardson > Secretary of Labor: unknown > Secretary of Health and Human Services: ex-Sen. Majority Leader Tom Daschle > Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: unknown > Secretary of Transportation: unknown > Secretary of Energy: unknown > Secretary of Education: unknown > Secretary of Veterans Affairs: unknown > Secretary of Homeland Security: AZ Gov. Janet Napolitano > > Other positions named or suggested or strongly rumored: > > WH Chief of Staff: Rahm Emanuel > Deputy White House Chiefs of Staff: Jim Messina, Mona Sutphen > Senior Advisers: David Axelrod, Pete Rouse, Valerie Jarrett [Jarrett is also Assistant to the President for Intergovernmental Affairs and Public Liason] > Press Secretary: Robert Gibbs > National Security Adviser: Gen. James Jones > Director of the Office of Management and Budget: Peter Orszag > Vice President’s Chief of Staff: Ron Klain > Assistant to the President for Legislative Affairs: Phil Schiliro > White House Counsel: Greg Craig > Cabinet Secretary: Chris Lu > Staff Secretary: Lisa Brown > EPA Administrator: Robert F. Kennedy Jr. > > Assuming the Clinton thing is for real, which by now I have to admit it is, you wonder who would take her spot. I am positive it won’t be Gov. Paterson. RFK Jr. might be interested and weighing the potential damage I’d prefer that solution to a cabinet post. I’d add Susan Rice to the list: UN Ambassador. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/87 "2008-11-22T10:20:41Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > . . . I guess he’s qualified, but isn’t he an awfully big free-trader? I was hoping the Obama Admin would portend a change in **that** policy field, at least. [Fair trade,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_trade) not free trade! You mean rebranded protectionism.Excellent for the world economy that Obama is choosing free trade and market oriented staff over hard left neo-protectionists. Perhaps we shall dodge the Neo-Protectionist bullet (1930 part II), dressed up as ‘fair trade’; America would be brilliant in not repeating that error. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/88 "2008-11-22T11:53:07Z")
I’ve always thought that the Secretary of State should be someone who has served as an ambassador. But typically the person chosen is someone who’s simply good at parroting the president’s message, kind of like the press secretary. Clinton might go beyond that, and I wonder if she’d be comfortable in the position. As for change, I’ve never expected Obama to transform the government completely. He’s a pragmatist, not a revolutionary. “Change” was a campaign slogan; now he has to get to work. It looks like he’s choosing people who will know how to get started immediately. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/89 "2008-11-22T12:45:05Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > I’ve always thought that the Secretary of State should be someone who has served as an ambassador. But typically the person chosen is someone who’s simply good at parroting the president’s message, kind of like the press secretary. Clinton might go beyond that, and I wonder if she’d be comfortable in the position. Mate, I don’t know what you think Ambos do, but basically they exist to parrot the President / Home Government’s message… ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/90 "2008-11-22T15:07:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [Here’s what the Dow did today.](http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=%5EDJI#symbol=%5EDJI;range=1d) I don’t need to tell you when word of the Geithner pick got out. 😉 It’s not right to put it ALL on him in my opinion, since there was other stuff going on and some of it is probably just relief that ANY pick has been made, but still, you get the sense Wall Street generally approves. Correlation is not causation. This is a pet peeve of mine about the mainstream non-financial headlines. If there’s a gigantic point drop one day, you can guaran-damn-tee the next day there will be a big upward bounce. That’s just how it goes. It’s always ascribed to “bargain hunting”, otherwise it gets hung on whatever is the big headline that day. In this case, do we know that the full pop is due to this SoT pick? What would the market have done if no pick were announced? Would it have been higher or lower if it were someone else? Would it have been higher or lower if it were some other bit of minor but tasty news to factor in? Does the fact that the stock market fell the morning after the election mean that Wall Street doesn’t like Obama? I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/91 "2008-11-22T15:54:27Z")
“If there’s a gigantic point drop one day, you can guaran-damn-tee the next day there will be a big upward bounce. That’s just how it goes. It’s always ascribed to “bargain hunting”, otherwise it gets hung on whatever is the big headline that day.” Actually it’s not true that big drops on one day are invariably or even mostly followed by a big gain the next day. In any event why would such a big bounce happen precisely at 3pm. It’s much more likely that this was a positive reaction to the Geithner news. Not that this means much; these same markets deserve a large part of the blame for the mess that Geithner is supposed to clean up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/92 "2008-11-22T17:44:58Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > If there’s a gigantic point drop one day, you can guaran-damn-tee the next day there will be a big upward bounce. That’s just how it goes. :dubious: There’s no such guarantee. The Dow fell 427 points Wednesday and 445 Thursday - how does that guarantee a 500 point gain Friday? And if that was really true, why was the DJ down as much as 200 points earlier before jumping right at the end of the day? > [@](#): > > It’s always ascribed to “bargain hunting”, otherwise it gets hung on whatever is the big headline that day. This is somewhat true. > [@](#): > > In this case, do we know that the full pop is due to this SoT pick? I said specifically there were other factors. It was the end fo the week, so people were likely covering some positions, and the FDIC’s gurantee thing may have been a factor to name two. And for the last few weeks or even months, the last hour of the trading day has consistently been nuts. I was surprised at first that everybody was chalking the rally up to Geithner\*. It wouldn’t make for a good headline, but right now I’d say the reaction appears to be positive. That doesn’t mean it’s approval of Geithner as opposed to approval that a choice has been made at all. \*I wasn’t surprised CNBC was doing it because it was an NBC report. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/93 "2008-11-22T18:27:33Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > Mate, I don’t know what you think Ambos do, but basically they exist to parrot the President / Home Government’s message… I know that. But an ambassador usually has to acquire some tact, in addition to parroting the president. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/94 "2008-11-22T19:41:36Z")
> [@Cosmic Relief](#): > > Correlation is not causation. … > In this case, do we know that the full pop is due to this SoT pick? No expert I but it strains credulity to believe that the timing of the market pop and the news had nothing to do with each other. My sense of it is less an endorsement of Geithner per se, but that the market was looking for a reason to pop up. The removal of a certain uncertainty, the sense that perhaps we were one step closer to getting some leadership becoming manifest and with someone who might be able to get things moving even before January 21 on the team as a bonus, was the excuse that the “bargain hunters” needed to jump back in. They’ll jump back out just as fast. I’ll personally feel much better after ten days of up 50 points a day than I do after one day of 500. This volatility keeps the traders actively engaged in trying to jump ahead in either direction and is hardly the convincing bottom that the investors need to see before they start putting much back in. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/95 "2008-11-22T22:36:42Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Didn’t Carter and Clinton bring people from GA and AR, respectively, and it backfired hugely on them? A mistake Obama is, clearly, trying to avoid. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/96 "2008-11-22T23:11:39Z")
I doubt seriously that he is paying attention to such piddly shit as where someone comes from or what “camp” they belong to. I sense that he is filling each position with the person he believes will best facilitate what he wants to accomplish. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/97 "2008-11-22T23:37:53Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I doubt seriously that he is paying attention to such piddly shit as where someone comes from or what “camp” they belong to. I sense that he is filling each position with the person he believes will best facilitate what he wants to accomplish. It’s also very hard to believe he nominated Clinton (or anyone else) to a very powerful position to just keep his enemies close. It’s unlikely he sees political rivals as enemies in the first place. I thought that was what people liked about him. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/98 "2008-11-22T23:44:06Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s also very hard to believe he nominated Clinton (or anyone else) to a very powerful position to just keep his enemies close. It’s unlikely he sees political rivals as enemies in the first place. I thought that was what people liked about him. Note that while he has appointed his personal political “rivals,” he has not appointed anyone whose **politics** are bitterly opposed to his own. That would be going too far; such would actively obstruct his agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/99 "2008-11-23T02:48:48Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > He has no executive experience, … Are not you getting just a bit tired of typing this by now? Perhaps you have a macro for it. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515/100 "2008-11-23T02:54:27Z")
> [@wmfellows](#): > > You mean rebranded protectionism.Excellent for the world economy that Obama is choosing free trade and market oriented staff over hard left neo-protectionists. Perhaps we shall dodge the Neo-Protectionist bullet (1930 part II), dressed up as ‘fair trade’; America would be brilliant in not repeating that error. While you can certainly design a fair trade system that is protectionist, there’s nothing inherently protectionist about fair trade, particularly if you’re dealing with uncompensated negative externalities. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-appointsments-oh-yeah-big-change/473515.md?page=6)