# Obama's Aunt an Illegal Immigrant **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 1, 2008, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561 "2008-11-01T11:18:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/81 "2008-11-01T20:07:58Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > No, it’s also illegal for the campaign to accept donations from non-citizens. The relevant statutes don’t specify a $ limit on it, the acceptable amount is $0. OK so how does this work in practice? When people try to give Obama $5 through paypal, do they have to fax over a birth certificate at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/82 "2008-11-01T20:14:07Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > OK so how does this work in practice? When people try to give Obama $5 through paypal, do they have to fax over a birth certificate at the same time? 'Cause you know that’s EXACTLY what the Rothschilds did when they hosted a McCain fundraiser at Spencer House in England… ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/83 "2008-11-01T20:16:24Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > I think it’s very unlikely this will cost Obama the election, but it is most definitely a very big deal. I’m quite sure it will sway a number of undecideds against Obama, and as John Mace said, this is a very emotional topic for some people. There’s a very large number people with an irrational fear of illegal aliens living in America. I wouldn’t be surprised if this puts all the remaining swing states back to McCain. Luckily, I think Obama still has enough EVs to win. > > And, well, we have our “October” Surprise. Underlining mine. No way - not even close. Colorado is almost sured to go to Obama, New Mexico, and possibly Virginia and NC. [QUOTE=Carol Stream] No, it’s also illegal for the campaign to accept donations from non-citizens. [/QUOTE] Right you are, but McCain’s camp AND Obama’s camp have a check box to say you are an american citizen. I’ve given [undisclosed] amounts to Obama - a lot - and there is no citizen verification aside from that little box. From the mans website: > [@](#): > > Legal Compliance > Check this box to confirm that the following statements are true and accurate: > I am a United States citizen or a lawfully-admitted permanent resident. > I am at least 16 years old. > This contribution is not made from the general treasury funds of a corporation, labor organization or national bank. > This contribution is not made from the funds of a political action committee. > This contribution is not made from the treasury of an entity or person who is a federal contractor. > This contribution is not made from the funds of an individual registered as a federal lobbyist or a foreign agent, or an entity that is a federally registered lobbying firm or foreign agent. > The funds I am donating are not being provided to me by another person or entity for the purpose of making this contribution. > > Shipping address (if different than billing address) Aside from that nothing. You tell me how they police that at the time of the donation? ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/84 "2008-11-01T20:18:02Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > OK so how does this work in practice? When people try to give Obama $5 through paypal, do they have to fax over a birth certificate at the same time? Of course! That’s exactly what the McCain campaign does. All the credit-card donations on their web site require you to upload a scan of your birth certificate and/or passport. No reason that the Obama campaign can’t do the same thing. The fact that they are not shows that they are America-hating Godless liberals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/85 "2008-11-01T20:22:27Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > OK so how does this work in practice? When people try to give Obama $5 through paypal, do they have to fax over a birth certificate at the same time? As a lawyer, I’ll take a crack at it. The [statute](http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/janqtr/11cfr110.20.htm) in question states: > [@](#): > > (4) Knowingly means that a person must: > (i) Have actual knowledge that the source of the funds solicited, > accepted or received is a foreign national; > (ii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to > conclude that there is a substantial probability that the source of the > funds solicited, accepted or received is a foreign national; or > (iii) Be aware of facts that would lead a reasonable person to > inquire whether the source of the funds solicited, accepted or received > is a foreign national, but the person failed to conduct a reasonable > inquiry. > (5) For purposes of paragraph (a)(4) of this section, pertinent > facts include, but are not limited to: > (i) The contributor or donor uses a foreign passport or passport > number for identification purposes; > (ii) The contributor or donor provides a foreign address; > (iii) The contributor or donor makes a contribution or donation by > means of a check or other written instrument drawn on a foreign bank or > by a wire transfer from a foreign bank; or > (iv) The contributor or donor resides abroad. > (6) Solicit has the same meaning as in 11 CFR 300.2(m). > (7) Safe Harbor. For purposes of paragraph (a)(4)(iii) of this > section, a person shall be deemed to have conducted a reasonable inquiry > if he or she seeks and obtains copies of current and valid U.S. passport > papers for U.S. citizens who are contributors or donors described in > paragraphs (a)(5)(i) through (iv) of this section. No person may rely on > this safe harbor if he or she has actual knowledge that the source of > the funds solicited, accepted, or received is a foreign national. And: > [@](#): > > (g) Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and > donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, > accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation > prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section. Now, Obama must have known his aunt is not a citizen (though he denies prior knowledge of her illegal status). However, he might or might not have known she was contributing funds ($260 donated in small increments over several months) to his campaign, and the campaign workers who processed the donations might have had no knowledge of who she was. The statute does not say a candidate is personally charged with knowledge WRT all donations accepted by his campaign organization – which, in a presidential campaign, is always vast and rambling. And, since they’re returning the money, which the old lady must need a lot worse than Obama does, I expect any court would take a “no harm, no foul” attitude to this matter. Furthermore, the statute specifies no criminal penalties for violation (they might be set out elsewhere in the chapter, I haven’t looked). ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/86 "2008-11-01T20:27:02Z")
Yes, but it has to be a \*real \*birth certificate of course, not merely a certification of birth. The fact that Obama’s aunt (half-sister of a father he barely knew, to be precise) has been turned into fodder for a struggling political campaign in the final days of an election reflects very poorly on that campaign. It hurts McCain’s image more than Obama’s. And yes, I do have a pro-Obama bias. But more people will be viewing this through pro-Obama than pro-McCain lenses, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/87 "2008-11-01T20:36:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And, since they’re returning the money, which the old lady must need a lot worse than Obama does, I expect any court would take a “no harm, no foul” attitude to this matter. Wait, do you have a cite that they are returning the money? Because that wasn’t in the AP story. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/88 "2008-11-01T20:41:28Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Wait, do you have a cite that they are returning the money? Because that wasn’t in the AP story. From Politico: > [@](#): > > The campaign will return $265 in contributions that Onyango made to Obama, citing prohibitions against foreign nationals donating to American campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/89 "2008-11-01T20:44:08Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Wait, do you have a cite that they are returning the money? Because that wasn’t in the AP story. Oh yeah, I’m sure the Obama campaign won’t be able to continue without her $256 and they are stupid enough not to return it. Do you really need a cite to believe that they did return it as soon as they found out? (or for nutters, as soon as they found out the story was going to break) ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/90 "2008-11-01T20:47:04Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > There was a time when whites in the South addressed every black woman of a certain age as “Auntie” and an elderly black man as “Uncle,” terms at once affectionate and dismissive – the age-appropriate equivalent of “Boy.” One could infer from your post that you think Fox is being racist. To be fair, they are quoting Obama’s reference to her as “Auntie Zeituni,” whence the quotation marks. (Although as of right now, they’ve managed to misspell “Auntie” on their home page: [http://www.foxnews.com/.](http://www.foxnews.com/.)) ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/91 "2008-11-01T20:49:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not all of Obama’s supporters are gah-gah over him. Some are lukewarm, and this could change their minds. A lot of it will hinge on what Obama knew and when he knew it. I agree with this. It could swing extremely marginal supporters of a certain mindset–but so could anything, for that matter. It will likely only have a larger impact if it can be shown that Obama did know about it. I consider that unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/92 "2008-11-01T21:00:37Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not all of Obama’s supporters are gah-gah over him. Some are lukewarm, and this could change their minds. A lot of it will hinge on what Obama knew and when he knew it. John, are you a lukewarm Obama supporter? If yes, will it change your vote if you find out that Obama knew his aunt was here illegally? Do you know anyone, anywhere, who will change their vote based on this? ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/93 "2008-11-01T21:13:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > From Politico: Do you have the actual linky-poo? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/94 "2008-11-01T21:24:51Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > Do you have the actual linky-poo? Uhhh…www.Politico.com or you could read post #89… ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/95 "2008-11-01T21:29:56Z")
To me, it’s just another argument for fixing our immigration laws, & it underscores the need. If it gets to where even the President’s aunt is “illegal,” something’s wrong. But I hate closed borders anyway; always have. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/96 "2008-11-01T21:32:47Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Uhhh…www.Politico.com or you could read post #89… A link to a website’s front page is in no way a cite. Besides, do you have one from an actual news organization that he’s returning the money? Or are you hoping he does so in the next day or two, when Brain Glutton’s claim becomes retroactively true? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/97 "2008-11-01T21:34:30Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > A link to a website’s front page is in no way a cite. Besides, do you have one from an actual news organization that he’s returning the money? Or are you hoping he does so in the next day or two, when Brain Glutton’s claim becomes retroactively true? You need to figure out the difference between healthy skepticism and denial. [http://us.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/obama.aunt/index.html](http://us.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/obama.aunt/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/98 "2008-11-01T21:37:30Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > If it gets to where even the President’s aunt is “illegal,” something’s wrong. My understanding is that overstaying a visa is not an actual crime. It is an administrative violation, and carries no criminal penalty. That said, I think it’s a _good_ thing that in this country even a soon to be President-elect’s relative has to follow procedure. We’re a nation of laws, after all. That said, if (when) she gets deported back to Kenya and reapplies for admission, I would certainly expect that this would help: Q. Closest relative currently living in the U.S.? A. Barack Obama - 1600 Pennsylvania Ave, Washington, D.C. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/99 "2008-11-01T21:38:32Z")
> [@Carol Stream to askeptic](#): > > A link to a website’s front page is in no way a cite. Besides, do you have one from an actual news organization that he’s returning the money? Or are you hoping he does so in the next day or two, when Brain Glutton’s claim becomes retroactively true? Jesus, don’t they have Google where you are? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2008, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561/100 "2008-11-01T21:40:25Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > A link to a website’s front page is in no way a cite. Besides, do you have one from an actual news organization that he’s returning the money? Or are you hoping he does so in the next day or two, when Brain Glutton’s claim becomes retroactively true? [http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/obama.aunt/?iref=mpstoryview](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/01/obama.aunt/?iref=mpstoryview) > [@](#): > > Federal campaign finance records indicate Onyango contributed at least $65 to Obama’s campaign in July and September, in $5 and $25 increments. Obama spokesman Burton said the campaign has identified $265 in contributions from Onyango, including those not yet reflected in federal filings, and plans to return the funds. As if we needed more evidence of how pathetic that talking point is. As I pointed before, it is others that need to be held accountable if they broke the law, and no it is not just the aunt: > [@](#): > > Democratic U.S. Rep. John Conyers of Michigan fired off a letter asking Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff to investigate whether someone leaked the information to the media in an effort to damage Obama. > > “The AP reports that it ‘could not establish whether anyone at a political level in the Bush administration or in the McCain campaign had been involved,’ a very disturbing (suggestion) indeed,” read the letter from Conyers, who is chairman of the House Judiciary Committee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-aunt-an-illegal-immigrant/470561.md?page=6)