# Obama's Berlin Speech and Humor **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 24, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646 "2008-07-24T19:35:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/21 "2008-07-24T22:29:07Z")
[QUOTE=Simplicio] He was pretty funny on his Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me (NPR show) appearances, certainly better then most of their other political office holding guests. I think the “no sense of humor” thing is just his opponents throwing caricatures at the wall and hoping one of them will stick. [/QUOTE] The humor thing is a combination of (a) the Right trying to make him look stuffy and “elitist” by claiming that he doesn’t have a sense of humor, and (b) comedians not having a “hook” they need for a proper caricature. What personality traits does he have that are ripe for mocking? He’s smart, articulate, personable, and inspiring, but (except for the last one), those aren’t really traits that make for obvious jokes the way that Clinton=Horny/Bush=Dumb/Gore=Stiff/McCain=Old do. So part of the “humorless” characterization is because he’s tougher than most politicians to make jokes _ **about** _. The most obvious thing that distinguishes him is his race, and nobody (except for black comedians) really wants to go there. The fact of the matter is that Obama has consistently shown that he has a great talent for self-deprecating humor. But the more the GOP repeats the “humorless/elitist” meme, the more they hope it successfully finds some traction. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/22 "2008-07-24T22:37:15Z")
Was Bill Clinton the first black president? I’m not sure, I’d have to see him dance first. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/23 "2008-07-24T23:16:56Z")
[QUOTE=Taber] Was Bill Clinton the first black president? I’m not sure, I’d have to see him dance first. [/QUOTE] That’s right, that was funny too. I brought this up in a Cafe thread recently, but most jokes about politicians are just cliches anyway. Before the Lewinsky scandal, most of the humor about Clintons was just recycled redneck and trailer trash jokes. ---
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/24 "2008-07-24T23:45:05Z")
When everyone was wondering if he would run for president, he [made this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWlrtpqp40), which I thought was reasonably amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/25 "2008-07-24T23:50:41Z")
OK, that got a LOL from me. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/26 "2008-07-25T01:46:10Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Funny thing is I was actually hoping he’d refer to the jelly doughnut too. A native German speaking friend of mine said technically JFK did say he was a jelly doughnut. - Ich bin ein Berliner = I am a jelly doughnut (a Berliner is a kind of jelly doughnut I guess) - Ich bin Berliner = I am a Berliner (a citizen of Berlin) He also said everyone knew exactly what he meant and liked what he was saying so was not worth commenting on to them. Or so I had it explained to me. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard it explained that it was sort of like if someone said to you, “I am a danish,” instead of “I am Danish.” Out of context, one might be tempted to ask if you were cheese-filled or raspberry. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/27 "2008-07-25T02:54:11Z")
[QUOTE=MLS] I’ve heard it explained that it was sort of like if someone said to you, “I am a danish,” instead of “I am Danish.” Out of context, one might be tempted to ask if you were cheese-filled or raspberry. [/QUOTE] Hamburger and Frankfurter also work. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/28 "2008-07-25T07:09:48Z")
Obama has a fabulous sense of humor, but he’s the straight man, always. Which is good because Hillary and McCain are both clowns. I mean come on, one of his funniest jokes is something that conservatives take humorlessly. The one about the ray of light shining down and convincing you to vote for Barack Obama. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/29 "2008-07-25T07:11:38Z")
[QUOTE=Roderick Femm] Oh, I don’t know, I expect Obama will make a similarly ineffectual president. All polished speeches and good on-camera presence, but no “there” there. Roddy [/QUOTE] :dubious: Do you actually know anything about Kennedy’s Presidency? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/30 "2008-07-25T07:39:17Z")
Well, if in his first couple of months in office Barack makes a half-assed attempt at sponsoring militant Iranian exiles to make a beach landing in a looney scheme to overthrow Ahmadinejad, and if _then_ when things go south in the first hour he leaves them there to be shot to pieces, and if _then_ he goes on national TV to apologize for his screwup, and if _then_ he therefore creates such an impression of being a pussy to Putin that Putin feels he has a free hand to accelerate his relocation of nukes to Cuba, why, _then_ Barack will have his Presidential Moment © just like Kennedy. Yes sirree bob. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/31 "2008-07-25T08:35:03Z")
**Koxinga** , were you alive during the Bay of Pigs? Do you have the Cuban Missile Crisis to compare it to? I was a young adult when these events happened. I live in the Southeastern United States. I know what it is like living for three days thinking that any hour may be my last. Although the Bay of Pigs was tragic and a terrible decision on the part of Kennedy, your words are meaningless to anyone who remembers or understands October of 1962. I think the families of those who suffered or died because of the Bay of Pigs might disagree with me. That too is understandable. I would take another John Kennedy any time. Genuine wit and intelligence. Check his overall popularity ratings while he was in office. In retrospect we can see more clearly his tragic flaws, but he puts everyone else who has come after him in the shade in terms of likeability and grace. And that was, after all, essentially what we were talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/32 "2008-07-25T08:49:48Z")
Giving a rousing speech to a mass rally in Berlin? Isn’t that [like something the Fuehrer would have done?](http://mediamatters.org/items/200807240001?f=h_latest) ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/33 "2008-07-25T08:53:03Z")
Princhester, how dare you make such comparisons. Were you in Berlin in the 30s? Did you know what it _felt like_, the exhiliration and pride to listen to a man like the Fuehrer after Germany had been trodden on so unjustly and stabbed in the back by the . . . well, anyway, certainly some unpleasant things emerged after the fact, but still, your words have no meaning for some one who, like, _lived through it_, man. And check out the Fuehrer’s charisma and popularity while he was in office! After all, that’s everything we ever need to consider and all we should talk about here, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/34 "2008-07-25T10:52:06Z")
[QUOTE=Indistinguishable] I think the joke would get blunted in the ensuing argument over whether JFK’s audience ever actually felt his wording referred to jelly donuts. [/QUOTE] Given the enormous cheer JFK got when he delivered the lines I doubt he said anything about donuts. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/35 "2008-07-25T11:03:08Z")
Hey I was just making a joke with no relevance to your point, don’t drag me into it. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/36 "2008-07-25T11:29:32Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] Funny thing is I was actually hoping he’d refer to the jelly doughnut too. A native German speaking friend of mine said technically JFK did say he was a jelly doughnut. - Ich bin ein Berliner = I am a jelly doughnut (a Berliner is a kind of jelly doughnut I guess) - Ich bin Berliner = I am a Berliner (a citizen of Berlin) He also said everyone knew exactly what he meant and liked what he was saying so was not worth commenting on to them. Or so I had it explained to me. [/QUOTE] Ich bin ein berliner would mean “I am like a citizen of berlin”.. Ich bin berliner would mean “I am litterally a citizen of berlin”…He worded it correctly. While it could also mean a donut, the above example of saying your a new yorker would not mean you are a magazine is spot on. > **[Ich bin ein Berliner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner)** > > "Ich bin ein Berliner" (.mw-parser-output .IPA-label-small{font-size:85%}.mw-parser-output .references .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .infobox .IPA-label-small,.mw-parser-output .navbox .IPA-label-small{font-size:100%}German pronunciation: \[ɪç bɪn ʔaɪn bɛʁˈliːnɐ\]; "I am a Berliner") is a speech by United States president John F. Kennedy given on June 26, 1963, in West Berlin. It is one of the best-known speeches of the Cold War and among the most famous anti-communist speeches. The speech ... > [@](#): > > In fact, Kennedy’s statement is both grammatically correct[4] and perfectly idiomatic, and cannot be misunderstood in context. The urban legend is not widely known within Germany, where Kennedy’s speech is considered a landmark in the country’s postwar history.[5] The indefinite article ein can be and often is omitted when speaking of an individual’s profession or residence but is necessary when speaking in a figurative sense as Kennedy did. Since the president was not literally from Berlin but only declaring his solidarity with its citizens, “Ich bin Berliner” would not have been correct.[6]… > > n fact, the opposite is true: The citizens of Berlin do refer to themselves as Berliner; what they do not refer to as Berliner are jelly doughnuts. While these are known as “Berliner” in other areas of Germany, they are simply called Pfannkuchen (pancakes) in and around Berlin.[10] Thus the merely theoretical ambiguity went unnoticed by Kennedy’s audience, as it did in Germany at large. In sum, “Ich bin ein Berliner” was the appropriate way to express in German what Kennedy meant to say.[11] ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/37 "2008-07-25T12:55:48Z")
I watched the Obama speech live on TV and watch him live as often as I can 'cos I missed out on the assassination of JFK as it wasn’t on live TV in the UK and I fell asleep waiting for Neil Armstrong to get his ass into gear. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/38 "2008-07-25T13:38:17Z")
It turns out Obama did say _Ich bin ein Berliner_, though. Ekiri Obama, that is - Barack Obama’s German second cousin. [German-language article by Spiegel Online](http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,568108,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/39 "2008-07-25T13:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=tagos] I watched the Obama speech live on TV and watch him live as often as I can 'cos I missed out on the assassination of JFK as it wasn’t on live TV in the UK [/quote] Congrats, that’s the most disgusting thing I’ve heard on this board in a while. > [@](#): > > I fell asleep waiting for Neil Armstrong to get his ass into gear. And that’s the most confusing. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646/40 "2008-07-25T13:48:23Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Congrats, that’s the most disgusting thing I’ve heard on this board in a while. And that’s the most confusing. 😕 [/QUOTE] You can’t be here much then. I have a mordant sense of humour but I’d be most surprised if he isn’t assassinated. I fell asleep between the Eagle has Landed and One Small Step. It was in the early hours of the morn in the UK and I was just a kid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-berlin-speech-and-humor/457646.md?page=3)