# Obama's Church - a problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120 "2008-05-30T11:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/21 "2008-05-30T14:24:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Church membership says nothing about the candidate. Nixon was a Quaker, for God’s sake. For what it’s worth, though, McCain’s pastor – that Parslee dude – has said some pretty vile and bigoted things – much more offensive than Wright, in my opinion. [/QUOTE] McCain’s pastor? Not! If you want to debate tangential figures like Farakhan, Sharpton, Hagee, Parsley and whoever go ahead… somewhere else. I’m clinging to the belief that you folks will admit a difference between those guys and a congregation and it’s leader who a candiadate has chosen to associate with. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/22 "2008-05-30T14:27:58Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Thanks for noticing… you’d think a Moderator would read more closely. 😃 If you would prefer a different question… what would an average, moderate voter think of a candidate who attends (among other things): A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA. A congregation committed to LIBERATION. A congregation committed to RESTORATION. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY. Forget conservatives and liberals… how are the moderates going to react? [/QUOTE] They don’t give a fuck. Moderates are concerned about gas prices and health care and Iraq. Is there anything in your list that you think should be frightening for some reason. I ahve to tell you, dude, the Wright thing is dead. No one cares. Not even the people who say they care really care. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/23 "2008-05-30T14:30:26Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Thanks for noticing… you’d think a Moderator would read more closely. 😃 If you would prefer a different question… what would an average, moderate voter think of a candidate who attends (among other things): A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA. A congregation committed to LIBERATION. A congregation committed to RESTORATION. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY. Forget conservatives and liberals… how are the moderates going to react? [/QUOTE] Well enough, at least, to the “ECONOMIC PARITY” part. The sort of thing moderates don’t even like to talk about, but are forced to find unobjectionable on its face once someone else brings it up. That’s what **really** scares you, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/24 "2008-05-30T14:33:44Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] McCain’s pastor? Not! [/quote] “Spiritual guide.” Same difference. McCain sucks up to bigots, Obama does not. that’s the difference. Wright said nothing particularly offensive. The GOP is awash with intolerant, religious demagogues. It will be nice to get a break from that garbage with Obama. > [@](#): > > I’m clinging to the belief that you folks will admit a difference between those guys and a congregation and it’s leader who a candiadate has chosen to associate with. The difference is that McCain panders to bigots while Obama does not. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/25 "2008-05-30T14:33:49Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] I’m clinging to the belief that you folks will admit a difference between those guys and a congregation and it’s leader who a candiadate has chosen to associate with. [/QUOTE] Probably not. If this is an issue for someone, it already is. If you are on the right this is a huge issue, but then again you would not be voting for Obama regardless. For a moderate it really is a non issue I believe. Why the hell would I care? Again the only way I see it becoming an issue is if it can be spun as the bogeyman and the only way that can happen is by making it a racist issue. Why would I care what these guys religious leaders do? To be honest right now I couldn’t tell you what religion Bush is, who is pastor is, nor where here goes to church–but more importantly I don’t care. So if I don’t care what religion the sitting president is, why would I care about Obama and McCain? The issue for me is the same on the McCain side–I dont’ care. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/26 "2008-05-30T14:34:10Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Not even the people who say they care really care. [/QUOTE] Isn’t this the truth. The best I can get from most of my conservative pals is “other people won’t like this Wright business”. But as a single drip in the thousands of drip-drip-drips that we will hear on Obama before the election, it has as much effect as anything else. They don’t have to prove anything, they just have to dislodge that trust a tiny bit. This is why I am glad that the campaign seems to have learned the lessons of Kerry and is responding to most of this stuff with a firm hand. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/27 "2008-05-30T14:42:26Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The difference is that McCain panders to bigots while Obama does not. [/QUOTE] Except for Donnie McClurkin and Hezekiah Walker. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/28 "2008-05-30T14:52:28Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Except for Donnie McClurkin and Hezekiah Walker. [/QUOTE] I think we all know which side is the more gay-friendly, on balance. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/29 "2008-05-30T15:07:07Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Except for Donnie McClurkin and Hezekiah Walker. [/QUOTE] As a gay man, I was troubled by Obama’s association with these two self-haters, but even I can discern the difference between someone who misguidedly says, from the pulpit, that God/the Bible leads them to believe and say something is not right and should be repented, and someone who views the Holocaust as just because God sent Hitler to carry out a phophecy, natural disasters as just retribution for a supposed homosexaul agenda, and who calls an established and longstanding religiion a whore. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/30 "2008-05-30T15:36:45Z")
The guest priest was pretty funny, though. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/31 "2008-05-30T15:43:48Z")
Wasn’t he though? How can you not find these guys amusing? There’s a fundamental difference in style and substance between what this guy was saying and doing and Hagee and his ilk…they’re always so damn serious. What I found interesting was that one the pundits, I think on Morning Joe; was like…"this white priest clearly has an inferiority complex…look at him trying to act ‘black’! What? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/32 "2008-05-30T15:47:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I think we all know which side is the more gay-friendly, on balance. [/QUOTE] No doubt, but that doesn’t mean giving either side a pass. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/33 "2008-05-30T15:48:56Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] If you would prefer a different question… what would an average, moderate voter think of a candidate who attends (among other things): A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA. A congregation committed to LIBERATION. A congregation committed to RESTORATION. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY. Forget conservatives and liberals… how are the moderates going to react? [/QUOTE] And how will moderates react to people who think CAPITALIZING STUFF substitutes for having a POINT? ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/34 "2008-05-30T15:49:53Z")
[QUOTE=42fish] And how will moderates react to people who think CAPITALIZING STUFF substitutes for having a POINT? [/QUOTE] Speaking for my people–we don’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/35 "2008-05-30T15:51:43Z")
I’ll have MY PEOPLE call YOUR PEOPLE. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/36 "2008-05-30T15:58:53Z")
Why would any thinking person be opposed to or troubled by any of these positive principles? Reconciliation, Commitment To Africa, Cultural Education, Historical Education Of African People In Diaspora, Liberation, Restoration, Economic Parity, and including Adoration and Salvation, as listed on UCC’s website. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/37 "2008-05-30T16:08:49Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA. A congregation committed to LIBERATION. A congregation committed to RESTORATION. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY. Forget conservatives and liberals… how are the moderates going to react? [/QUOTE] It all seems positive to me. I’m really not seeing much that’s inflammatory. If it was a congregation committed to STOMPING ON CUTE LITTLE PUPPIES, I could see the issue, but a church that works for social justice is not that shocking. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/38 "2008-05-30T16:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=42fish] And how will moderates react to people who think CAPITALIZING STUFF substitutes for having a POINT? [/QUOTE] Copied and pasted directly from the church’s website. Do you want to take that back now? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/39 "2008-05-30T16:14:56Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Well enough, at least, to the “ECONOMIC PARITY” part. The sort of thing moderates don’t even like to talk about, but are forced to find unobjectionable on its face once someone else brings it up. That’s what **really** scares you, isn’t it? [/QUOTE] Scared? Me? Hah!! I laugh in the face of liberalness! 😃 Besides, we’d have to clarify what they mean by “economic parity” especially in combination with things like liberation, restoration and diaspora. Is it code for reparations? ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/40 "2008-05-30T16:20:56Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Copied and pasted directly from the church’s website. Do you want to take that back now? [/QUOTE] Fine. How will moderates react to people who think copying & pasting substitutes for having a point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120.md?page=3)