# Obama's Church - a problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120 "2008-05-30T11:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/41 "2008-05-30T16:23:25Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!! to 42fish] Copied and pasted directly from the church’s website. Do you want to take that back now? [/QUOTE] Why should he? The church isn’t debating here. See, the way debates work is that the first guy makes an argument, with which others may agree or disagree. Pasting a menu from a restaurant or a bulletin from a church doesn’t constitute making an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/42 "2008-05-30T16:34:24Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Why should he? The church isn’t debating here. See, the way debates work is that the first guy makes an argument, with which others may agree or disagree. Pasting a menu from a restaurant or a bulletin from a church doesn’t constitute making an argument. [/QUOTE] Since it is relevant information (not everyone knows what policies the United Church of Christ stands for) I don’t see what is wrong with pasting it in. It’s the same as citing it using a link but more convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/43 "2008-05-30T16:37:08Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Besides, we’d have to clarify what they mean by “economic parity” especially in combination with things like liberation, restoration and diaspora. Is it code for reparations? [/QUOTE] No, it’s “code” for “economic parity”. Basically that the economic situation for the black community should be on par with that for the nation as a whole. Is this something you think is a negative goal? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/44 "2008-05-30T16:57:37Z")
[QUOTE=Canadjun] Since it is relevant information (not everyone knows what policies the United Church of Christ stands for) I don’t see what is wrong with pasting it in. It’s the same as citing it using a link but more convenient. [/QUOTE] Are those your words, or did you copy them from somewhere? That’s what attributions are for. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/45 "2008-05-30T17:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] The guest priest was pretty funny, though. [/QUOTE] Heh, yeah he was. I’m not really the church going type, but I would really like to go to Trinity sometime. I was watching Faux last night, does anyone still take them seriously anymore? They have become a parody of themselves. We should now be concerned about Obama because of the guest Priest of the new Pastor that replaced the old Reverend? Any one know if Kevin Bacon has ever been a guest speaker at that church? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/46 "2008-05-30T17:05:39Z")
[QUOTE=tds1273] Heh, yeah he was. I’m not really the church going type, but I would really like to go to Trinity sometime. [/QUOTE] They’re broadcast on BET on Sunday morning. I believe it is 6:30 AM central time. Probably the previous week’s sermon. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/47 "2008-05-30T17:06:46Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Is it code for reparations? [/QUOTE] Oh, here we go. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/48 "2008-05-30T17:09:53Z")
No surprises here. [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=3423465) a list of GD threads started by **What the … !!!.** I won’t say it’s impossible, but you have to look really **hard** to find one that isn’t based on an utterly retarded premise. Especially in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/49 "2008-05-30T17:11:17Z")
[QUOTE=Jas09] No, it’s “code” for “economic parity”. Basically that the economic situation for the black community should be on par with that for the nation as a whole. Is this something you think is a negative goal? [/QUOTE] It’s a wonderful goal. The issue is what you plan to do about it. There are many ways to attack this problem-- not all of them good. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/50 "2008-05-30T17:18:46Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It’s a wonderful goal. The issue is what you plan to do about it. There are many ways to attack this problem-- not all of them good. [/QUOTE] Churches set goals in broad, moral terms; we don’t expect them to provide detailed policy analysis. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/51 "2008-05-30T18:19:48Z")
Senator Obama’s church would be listed in the negative column for me. I was brought up in a “melting pot” mindset in all aspects of my life. His church is clearly interested in promoting a “diversity” theme complete with 60’s era racial baggage. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/52 "2008-05-30T18:22:55Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Senator Obama’s church would be listed in the negative column for me. I was brought up in a “melting pot” mindset in all aspects of my life. His church is clearly interested in promoting a “diversity” theme complete with 60’s era racial baggage. [/QUOTE] As opposed to a non-diversity theme complete with founding-of-the-country era racial baggage? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/53 "2008-05-30T18:29:20Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Senator Obama’s church would be listed in the negative column for me. I was brought up in a “melting pot” mindset in all aspects of my life. His church is clearly interested in promoting a “diversity” theme complete with 60’s era racial baggage. [/QUOTE] What is the essential conflict between “melting pot” and “diversity”? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/54 "2008-05-30T18:34:48Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] No surprises here. [Here’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?searchid=3423465) a list of GD threads started by **What the … !!!.** I won’t say it’s impossible, but you have to look really **hard** to find one that isn’t based on an utterly retarded premise. Especially in 2008. [/QUOTE] There you go again… typical reaction to a debat you don’t want to have. What is retarded about holding a candidate responsible for the beliefs of the congregation that he has chosen to be a part of for 20 years and continues to defend? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/55 "2008-05-30T18:36:17Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What is the essential conflict between “melting pot” and “diversity”? [/QUOTE] One is a merging of people, the other is an island mentality of individual cultures. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/56 "2008-05-30T18:38:37Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] One is a merging of people, the other is an island mentality of individual cultures. [/QUOTE] And you think TUCC wants to **perpetuate** the latter? I don’t get that from anything yet published by or about them. They’re just making the best of deeply entrenched social conditions wherein AA’s **are** an island culture willy-nilly. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/57 "2008-05-30T18:40:14Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] There you go again… typical reaction to a debat you don’t want to have. What is retarded about holding a candidate responsible for the beliefs of the congregation that he has chosen to be a part of for 20 years and continues to defend? [/QUOTE] You still haven’t explained what is wrong with the core beliefs of the church itself as expressed on its website. Is it a debate you don’t want to have? And **Magiver** hasn’t answered my question. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/58 "2008-05-30T18:40:57Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] What is retarded about holding a candidate responsible for the beliefs of the congregation that he has chosen to be a part of for 20 years and continues to defend? [/QUOTE] Haven’t you even read the posts in this thread? It’s retarded because (1) there is absolutely nothing objectionable about those beliefs as such, including those you’ve posted, and (2) in any case that would be like identifying a Catholic candidate with every point of Church doctrine or policy however controversial. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/59 "2008-05-30T18:45:59Z")
From the Trinity website: > [@](#): > > We believe in you, O God, Eternal Spirit, God of our Savior Jesus Christ and our God, and to your deeds we testify: You call the worlds into being, create persons in your own image,and set before each one the ways of life and death. You seek in holy love to save all people from aimlessness and sin. You judge people and nations by your righteous will declared through prophets and apostles. In Jesus Christ, the man of Nazareth, our crucified and risen Savior, you have come to us and shared our common lot, conquering sin and death and reconciling the world to yourself. You bestow upon us your Holy Spirit, creating and renewing the church of Jesus Christ, binding in covenant faithful people of all ages, tongues, and races. You call us into your church to accept the cost and joy of discipleship, to be your servants in the service of others, to proclaim the gospel to all the world and resist the powers of evil,to share in Christ’s baptism and eat at his table, to join him in his passion and victory. You promise to all who trust you forgiveness of sins and fullness of grace, courage in the struggle for justice and peace, your presence in trial and rejoicing, and eternal life in your realm which has no end. Blessing and honor, glory and power be unto you. Amen. And from the North Phoenix Baptist Church > [@](#): > > We believe that Jesus has eternally existed as God. Jesus became human in order to restore the relationship between God and humanity, which had been broken because of our sin. In other words, God became one of us. This is sometimes called the Incarnation. The written record of God revealing his plan to restore what had been broken through Jesus is called the Bible. It tells us that Jesus not only became human, but was born to a virgin and lived a sinless, perfect life on earth. His perfect life meant that his death would enable sinful humanity to have a way back to God. Jesus chose to die on a cross as a sacrifice for us and he rose from the dead three days later to make new life possible for us in this life and the next. What Jesus did during his time on earth, his character, and his teachings provide a consistent reminder of what we should be about with our lives. > > How do I begin a relationship with Jesus and receive this new life? > By confessing, or admitting your sin to God, putting your trust in Jesus and what His death and resurrection made possible for you, and yielding your life to God’s purposes, you can begin a personal relationship with Jesus. We believe that when we begin that relationship, the Spirit of God enters our being - we call it the Holy Spirit - and that Spirit not only becomes our guide, but it continues the process that began at our point of surrender - moving us from a life of sin to a life where we resemble the person of Jesus Christ. Wow, I mean those are about as different as apples and apples. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/60 "2008-05-30T18:51:02Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] And you think TUCC wants to **perpetuate** the latter? I don’t get that from anything yet published by or about them. They’re just making the best of deeply entrenched social conditions wherein AA’s **are** an island culture willy-nilly. [/QUOTE] “They” are? As in “those people”? I don’t know who the cart is or who the horse is in the relationship but Wright’s antiquated message of cultural diversity is purchased by his congregation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120.md?page=4)