# Obama's Church - a problem? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 30, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120 "2008-05-30T11:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/121 "2008-05-31T21:52:59Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They’re lying. [/QUOTE] I would ask how you know that, but I won’t bother. It’s obvious that you have made up your mind and won’t let facts get in the way. Now, I don’t for a minute think this is a big deal of an issue, but it’s a fact that some people are bothered by Obama’s relationship with Wright. Whether they are justified in that belief is open to debate-- that they have such a belief is indisputable. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/122 "2008-05-31T21:55:25Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] No, I don’t understand why it’s insulting. Answer the question and you won’t have to assume there’s something I won’t admit. [/QUOTE] It’s insulting to ask someone to purchase based on race. The insult is in the form of racial discrimination and the person insulted is everyone who is not of that race. Asking a congregation to shop locally to keep jobs in the area is different than asking them to support black businesses. If you own a Mexican restaurant you are being told you are not welcome. [QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] You do understand the words “tacit” and “institutionalized,” and by extension “status quo” right? And, are you telling me there is nothing in the publish concerning historic interrelationship between golf, restricted clubs and the chances for advancement/making connections in business? [/QUOTE] I’ve never argued the reality of the past. Reverend Wright invoked distrust in white people based on past grievances. He has created an isolationist mentality as is evident with his plea to shop at black owned businesses. This message was served to his congregation in addition to the normal religious instruction that his position as spiritual leader entails. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/123 "2008-05-31T22:10:19Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] it’s a fact that some people are bothered by Obama’s relationship with Wright. Whether they are justified in that belief is open to debate-- that they have such a belief is indisputable. [/QUOTE] More precisely, some people are worried that the divisive, hating attitudes Wright and Pfleger have proclaimed are Obama’s as well, underneath a politician’s articulate facade. Given his long and close relationship with Wright, and his commitment to a congregation that could welcome Pfleger, that worry is not easily dispelled with a speech and a press release. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/124 "2008-05-31T22:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] They’re lying. [/QUOTE] Are you this much of a jerk IRL? You made an unsubstiated claim, and **John Mace** refuted it. Your response? “They’re lying.” :dubious: I feel sorry for your family. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/125 "2008-05-31T22:50:07Z")
[Obama resigns from his church.](http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_resigns_from_trinity_uni.html) Not sure what I think of that. A little disappointed is the first blush. May be practical but still. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/126 "2008-05-31T23:01:18Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] [Obama resigns from his church.](http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_resigns_from_trinity_uni.html) Not sure what I think of that. A little disappointed is the first blush. May be practical but still. [/QUOTE] Brilliant! He hasn’t attended a service at that church in over a year, so on that level alone it makes sense. The pastor who brought him into the fold has not only become someone he doesn’t recognize, but he’s retired anyway. And now he just took Hillary’s news day away from her. 😃 GObama! ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/127 "2008-05-31T23:03:29Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Are you this much of a jerk IRL? You made an unsubstiated claim, and **John Mace** refuted it. Your response? “They’re lying.” :dubious: I feel sorry for your family. [/QUOTE] Missed the edit window. Sorry for posting such in the wrong forum. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/128 "2008-05-31T23:05:34Z")
You’re not sure how it could be something other than a calculation of expediency, a move to try to keep this from being a problem any longer? What other possibilities are you considering? So much for :[“one of the great speeches of our time” and so forth](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/obama.transcript/) > [@](#): > > I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community… These people are a part of me. And they are a part of America, this country that I love. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/129 "2008-06-01T00:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This might come as a shock to you, but no one actually gives a rat’s ass about Reverend Wright. It’s really not a “problem,” no matter how much the right would like to make it into one. Outside of the right wing media echo chamber, no one cares. [/QUOTE] No one cares, huh? Have you figured out how to turn this into the next Willie Horton yet? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/130 "2008-06-01T00:18:52Z")
Oh, my, yes, we have only \*begun \* to see the “God damn America!” clip on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/131 "2008-06-01T00:24:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I would ask how you know that, but I won’t bother. It’s obvious that you have made up your mind and won’t let facts get in the way. Now, I don’t for a minute think this is a big deal of an issue, but it’s a fact that some people are bothered by Obama’s relationship with Wright. Whether they are justified in that belief is open to debate-- that they have such a belief is indisputable. [/QUOTE] I would agree. If the OP would go back to his actual OP that he/she stated rather then the hidden OP that it seems he/she is after, the question is does this matter to the middle? That I can’t answer unless we use the evidence presented by the only two moderates posting (myself and Harborwolf) which is no. (Actually to your credit I actually am still unclear as to your political stance even after a couple of years of reading your posts, but I think you are a moderate as well!). I think this is really will become a non-issue for most voters. It will continue to gain airtime for those who would never vote for Obama to begin with (such as our lllustrious OP) and for a few on the left it might be an issue. I do see it being an issue if it indeed can be portrayed as a polarizing issue. However resigning from his church in the midst of the Florida/Michigan debacle is pure genius. That story will be the lead and in my opinion this story will drop off the radar. Again pure speculation, but when is anything political anything other? ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/132 "2008-06-01T00:31:34Z")
[QUOTE=Hakuna Matata] I would agree. If the OP would go back to his actual OP that he/she stated rather then the hidden OP that it seems he/she is after, the question is does this matter to the middle? That I can’t answer unless we use the evidence presented by the only two moderates posting (myself and Harborwolf) which is no. (Actually to your credit I actually am still unclear as to your political stance even after a couple of years of reading your posts, but I think you are a moderate as well!). I think this is really will become a non-issue for most voters. It will continue to gain airtime for those who would never vote for Obama to begin with (such as our lllustrious OP) and for a few on the left it might be an issue. I do see it being an issue if it indeed can be portrayed as a polarizing issue. However resigning from his church in the midst of the Florida/Michigan debacle is pure genius. That story will be the lead and in my opinion this story will drop off the radar. Again pure speculation, but when is anything political anything other? [/QUOTE] Pure genius? Really? Considering he “won the day” with regards to the MI/FL delagates and he is all but assured of the nomination, he picks today to resign from his church? Oh yeah, artwork. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/133 "2008-06-01T00:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Obama just resigned from Trinity. [/QUOTE] Now we can focus on important things, like his bowling average or whether he likes coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/134 "2008-06-01T00:38:41Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] Pure genius? Really? Considering he “won the day” with regards to the MI/FL delagates and he is all but assured of the nomination, he picks today to resign from his church? Oh yeah, artwork. [/QUOTE] How much airtime will the story get that he is resigning from his church? I believe the story of the day and for the next several days will be the MI/FL delegates–don’t you? The church story will get aired, but it won’t get the air play it would get say two or three weeks from now in my opinion. Look at the threads here (although this doesn’t indicate anything on the national level), but all of them are mainly focused on the MI/FL issue. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/135 "2008-06-01T01:17:41Z")
[QUOTE=Hakuna Matata] How much airtime will the story get that he is resigning from his church? I believe the story of the day and for the next several days will be the MI/FL delegates–don’t you? The church story will get aired, but it won’t get the air play it would get say two or three weeks from now in my opinion. Look at the threads here (although this doesn’t indicate anything on the national level), but all of them are mainly focused on the MI/FL issue. [/QUOTE] The threads here? Oh yeah, they’re perfect example of a cross section of the United States. And Obama “won” the MI/FL “dispute.” The nomination is his. So why today to resign from his church of 20 years? Does the name Father Pfleger ring a bell. I personally do not believe for one minute that he would have resigned from his church, (he probably wishes that his church would never be mentioned in the media again) particullary today, if it weren’t for Pfleger. And airtime. tune in to FOX. Dismiss it if you like, but it is the lead story on almost every show they run. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/136 "2008-06-01T01:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] No one cares, huh? Have you figured out how to turn this into the next Willie Horton yet? [/QUOTE] You guys are already trying, but it isn’t working this time. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/137 "2008-06-01T01:20:50Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Oh, my, yes, we have only \*begun \* to see the “God damn America!” clip on TV. [/QUOTE] Is there anyone left alive who hasn’t already seen it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/138 "2008-06-01T01:22:32Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] Are you calling Obama a liar for addressing the issue? [/QUOTE] I don’t understand your question? What specific statement of Obama’s are you asking about? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/139 "2008-06-01T01:26:21Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I would ask how you know that, but I won’t bother. It’s obvious that you have made up your mind and won’t let facts get in the way. Now, I don’t for a minute think this is a big deal of an issue, but it’s a fact that some people are bothered by Obama’s relationship with Wright. Whether they are justified in that belief is open to debate-- that they have such a belief is indisputable. [/QUOTE] I don’t believe for a second that any such concern exists. The only people who say they care are Hillary and McCain supporters. They see it as ammunition, not genuine concern (unless they are really, _really_ unintelligent, but then the real morons would be Republicans anyway). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120/140 "2008-06-01T01:29:53Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] You’re not sure how it could be something other than a calculation of expediency, a move to try to keep this from being a problem any longer? What other possibilities are you considering? So much for :[“one of the great speeches of our time” and so forth](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/18/obama.transcript/) [/QUOTE] His explanation today made sense. He didn’t want to desert his congregation, but (along with the asinine distractions to his own campaign) the press harrassment of members was becoming so bad, he had no choice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-church-a-problem/451120.md?page=8)