# Obama's college transcripts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492 "2012-04-21T12:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/181 "2012-04-25T14:23:35Z")
> [@](#): > > The issue is Obama’s college transcripts, and whether their release would be meaningful. Well sure, but since it’s a dumb question, it got boring. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/182 "2012-04-25T14:37:16Z")
Wow. Well, my only comment is to say one of the many reasons I disfavor affirmative action is because it allows the inference that Obama, clearly a brilliant man, needed some sort of boost to get by. It’s pretty clear to me that Obama’s abilities would allow him to succeed on a level playing field. That, then, is the default assumption and it falls to proponents of any other claim to make their case with evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/183 "2012-04-25T14:52:28Z")
Of course Obama got into Harvard on affirmative action. He’s a legacy. Harvard’s and the Ivy League’s own special version of affirmative action. It has jack shit to do with being an African-American and everything to do with having a father who went there. Being African-American probably didn’t hurt and he doesn’t have the generations-long chain of Harvard family that President Bush, for example, had. But I don’t consider admission to Harvard much of an achievement. To me, it means you either had accomplished parents and possibly grandparents, a wealthy family, OR you’re extremely intelligent and accomplished at eighteen. What you do when you get there? That’s what counts. And apparently he did well enough as an undergraduate to get into law school and well enough in law school to graduate _magna cum laude_. I just don’t see how this is relevant. Why is there some reason to question it? Even if he was secretly only in the top twenty-five of law students at Harvard Law, he still knows more about, say, Constitutional law than the average schmo on the street. Especially if the average schmo considers himself an expert. I recall seeing a graph once in some webcomic or something that showed the absolute peak of a person’s confidence in speaking about a subject appears when they know a very small amount about it. It trickles down for a while after that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/184 "2012-04-25T15:07:48Z")
Frankly, I don’t see how we can determine whether AA had any part in his admittance to Columbia or Harvard without seeing his K-12 record. Did he attend Head Start? How old was he when he was potty-trained? Hell, WAS he successfully potty-trained? Where’s the PROOF? We neeeeeeeeeed to knooooooooooow!!!11!!!1! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/185 "2012-04-25T15:15:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’ve not expressed any concerns about the potentially unfair advantages afforded Obama or anyone else. I’ve merely noted that there is reason to believe that his academic accomplishments were aided by AA and thus these are less of a proof of his accomplishments than would be similar academic accomplishments by non-minority members. And the same would apply to other minority members in similar circumstances. Point of information, please. The above seems to imply that affirmative action has or could have an influence on grades, these being the measure of ‘academic accomplishments’. I was under the impression that AA could influence acceptance into an institution. I’ve never before seen a suggestion that AA was a factor in grading. But how else am I to read your statements? Or am I wrong about the mechanism of AA? ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/186 "2012-04-25T15:50:34Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > My references to “transperancy” relate to Obama’s claim that he would be more so when he became President… please correct me if that didn’t happen… the claim that is. He was referring to the transparency of the office of the President, not allowing random Joe Q. Public to crawl up his ass with a microscope looking for a letter of reprimand from the third grade from Ms. Krobappel. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/187 "2012-04-25T15:52:30Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > “Note that JQPublic is a “birther” (and I think that’s all he’s posted about on the SDMB)- which is why I’m bringing that up.” > > You must have me confused with someone else. I never brought up the birth issue in this thread or any previous thread. > Prove that I did. You’re right, I did have you confused with someone else. I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/188 "2012-04-25T15:55:29Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Well sure, but since it’s a dumb question, it got boring. That’s fine, but in any event, my own remarks have been made in the context of this thread. > [@Bricker](#): > > Well, my only comment is to say one of the many reasons I disfavor affirmative action is because it allows the inference that Obama, clearly a brilliant man, needed some sort of boost to get by. I suspect that “clearly a brilliant man” might be a bit overstating it, from what I’ve seen, but I’ve not followed him closely enough to say that you’re wrong. In any event, he’s clearly smart enough to be POTUS, so I don’t think his intelligence is an issue. (If anything, I think being brilliant might be more of a negative in a president than a positive, FWIW.) > [@](#): > > It’s pretty clear to me that Obama’s abilities would allow him to succeed on a level playing field. That, then, is the default assumption and it falls to proponents of any other claim to make their case with evidence. Actually, it doesn’t. This is not a court of law. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. > [@CannyDan](#): > > Point of information, please. The above seems to imply that affirmative action has or could have an influence on grades, these being the measure of ‘academic accomplishments’. I was under the impression that AA could influence acceptance into an institution. I’ve never before seen a suggestion that AA was a factor in grading. But how else am I to read your statements? Have you read the entire discussion? > [@Kolga](#): > > He was referring to the transparency of the office of the President, not allowing random Joe Q. Public to crawl up his ass with a microscope looking for a letter of reprimand from the third grade from Ms. Krobappel. Actually, if you ask me, there’s much too much transparency of the latter sort already. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/189 "2012-04-25T15:56:26Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re right, I did have you confused with someone else. I apologize. Well to be fair, he’s skated up to the edge of it. Easy enough see why you’d have thought so. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/190 "2012-04-25T16:54:24Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (If anything, I think being brilliant might be more of a negative in a president than a positive, FWIW.) This madness [requires its own thread.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=649586) ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/191 "2012-04-25T16:59:57Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > He was referring to the transparency of the office of the President, not allowing random Joe Q. Public to crawl up his ass with a microscope looking for a letter of reprimand from the third grade from Ms. Krobappel. I knew that…I’d ask how you think he is doing on that front but I know the answer…er, ah, I mean response. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/192 "2012-04-25T17:00:12Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > [@CannyDan](#): > > > > > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > > > > I’ve not expressed any concerns about the potentially unfair advantages afforded Obama or anyone else. I’ve merely noted that there is reason to believe that his academic accomplishments were aided by AA and thus these are less of a proof of his accomplishments than would be similar academic accomplishments by non-minority members. And the same would apply to other minority members in similar circumstances. > > > > Point of information, please. The above seems to imply that affirmative action has or could have an influence on grades, these being the measure of ‘academic accomplishments’. I was under the impression that AA could influence acceptance into an institution. I’ve never before seen a suggestion that AA was a factor in grading. But how else am I to read your statements? > > > > Or am I wrong about the mechanism of AA? > > Have you read the entire discussion? Yes. Does this answer my questions? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/193 "2012-04-25T17:26:47Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Yes. > > Does this answer my questions? Read for comprehension. In particular, posts #119, #121, & #124. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/194 "2012-04-25T17:29:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s pretty clear to me that Obama’s abilities would allow him to succeed on a level playing field. That, then, is the default assumption and it falls to proponents of any other claim to make their case with evidence. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Actually, it doesn’t. This is not a court of law. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. True, but if your opinion is based on bullshit instead of evidence, it’s going to be valued as exactly that. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/195 "2012-04-25T17:58:18Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I knew that…I’d ask how you think he is doing on that front but I know the answer…er, ah, I mean response. So you knew he WASN’T referring to releasing the documents you’re insisting he should release or explain the lack of release thereof when he used that statement, and yet you’re using that statement as a justification to insist on the release of documents or an explanation for the lack of release thereof? ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/196 "2012-04-25T19:33:51Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Read for comprehension. > > In particular, posts #119, #121, & #124. Ah, I see. So in Post 61 you comment specifically about his transcripts. Then you say “…they would…”, using the term “accomplishments” as a synonym for transcripts, and opine that he “got by”, in the context of those transcripts. And in Post 114 you repeat the use of “accomplishments”. But you do not contradict or retract the context of “transcripts” from your most recent previous post, that being #61. So in Post 114 you are still talking about transcripts. In Post 119 **Vinyl Turnip** offers his/her own list of “academic accomplishments” and makes it clear that these are separate from transcripts. In Post 121 you accept that list and note that there is “suspicion” about these accomplishments being “melanin-enhanced”. You state “As previous…”, appending **Vinyl Turnip’s** list to your earlier reference to transcripts as all being under suspicion. In Post 124 you double down on this, stating that “I think AA helps with most or all of the items in VT’s list of accomplishments”. But nowhere in these posts do you retract your original assertion of transcripts, or grades, being affected by AA. You merely broaden your “suspicion” to include the larger group of things offered by someone else. From that point on you’ve continued with the broad brush. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/197 "2012-04-25T19:45:39Z")
Unfortunately you’ve failed to understand this discussion at even the most basic level. No one - not me or anyone else - has ever claimed or suggested that Obama’s grades as shown in his transcript were enhanced by AA. No one knows what these grades were. The suggestion is that maybe these unseen grades were low. Get that clear. Maybe he had low grades. The response of many people is what these possible low grades might be relevant to. And my response to that is that some people are interested because if they showed him to be a poor student, then it would suggest that his academic achievements were assisted by AA. I realize now that you somehow got the notion that I was suggesting that seeing his transcript would somehow show that his marks themselves were enhanced by AA, but this is silly, and I can’t imagine why someone should have thought this. Again, the suggestion is that he had (relatively) low grades, and if this turned out to be the case, then it would imply that he was a (relatively) poor student and that his other accomplishments, such as the ones enumerated by VT, were helped by AA. Sorry if this wasn’t clear to you, but frankly it would never have occured to me that someone might misunderstand this. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/198 "2012-04-25T19:52:56Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Unfortunately you’ve failed to understand this discussion at even the most basic level. > > No one - not me or anyone else - has ever claimed or suggested that Obama’s grades as shown in his transcript were enhanced by AA. No one knows what these grades were. The suggestion is that maybe these unseen grades were low. Get that clear. Maybe he had low grades. > > The response of many people is what these possible low grades might be relevant to. And my response to that is that some people are interested because if they showed him to be a poor student, then it would suggest that his academic achievements were assisted by AA. > > I realize now that you somehow got the notion that I was suggesting that seeing his transcript would somehow show that his marks themselves were enhanced by AA, but this is silly, and I can’t imagine why someone should have thought this. > > Again, the suggestion is that he had (relatively) low grades, and if this turned out to be the case, then it would imply that he was a (relatively) poor student and that his other accomplishments, such as the ones enumerated by VT, were helped by AA. > > Sorry if this wasn’t clear to you, but frankly it would never have occured to me that someone might misunderstand this. We get it…He’s Black. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/199 "2012-04-25T19:54:07Z")
Makes you feel good, doesn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/200 "2012-04-25T19:57:01Z")
Let me guess…you have plenty of black friends. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=11)