# Obama's college transcripts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492 "2012-04-21T12:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/61 "2012-04-23T14:13:12Z")
I agree that Obama’s college transcripts are not relevant to the public at this time. However, I wuld note that Bush’s transcripts were of interest to the public, particularly to the very sort of leftists who are now proclaiming that Obama’s are of no interest. In the case of Bush, they were used to “prove” that Bush was a moron who got by based on connections and money. In the case Obama, they would be presumably be used to “prove” that Obama’s celebrated college/law school accomplishments are worth less than meets the eye, and that he got by based on affirmative action. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/62 "2012-04-23T14:32:19Z")
I don’t think anyone was ever agitating to have Bush’s transcripts released, though now that they are out there, why not make fun of them? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/63 "2012-04-23T14:36:39Z")
I would note that you’re mistaken. Bush couldn’t competently spit out a sentence, and his father was President. No one needed to see his college transcripts to know that he was a moron who got by based on connections and money. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/64 "2012-04-23T14:41:24Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Have there been any official explanations why not? The answer is that Obama has not released his grades, and there has been no explanation for two reasons: he’s under no obligation to release them, and because candidates usually don’t release them. There have been some instances where a candidate’s grades have been reported, including Bush, but none as far as I know have deliberately reported their grades. That’s really not a surprise: there is no upside in releasing your college grades if you’re running for higher office. If your grades are mediocre or bad, people will say it shows you’re a dumbass. If your grades are good, people will say “Who cares? That was decades ago.” > [@](#): > > How about his Harvard transcripts? The same. But we know he graduated magna cum laude, and if memory serves, that means he was in the top 10 percent of his class. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/65 "2012-04-23T14:56:11Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The Conspiracy Theory I heard bandied about was that Obama’s choice of classes would be “controversial”. That is, he allegedly took course like “Why Black People are Better than White People” or some such. Whatever it was, releasing the transcripts would just make the non-story even more of a legit story. That’s a very generous version of the conspiracy theory. I’ve heard a different one, and it basically amounts to, “Obama only got into college because he’s black and there’s this thing called affirmative action that lets utter morons into good schools just because they’re black. Since Obama is clearly an utter moron and unfit to be a US citizen, yet alone a college graduate or even a president, he must have done really poorly in his undergrad studies. But then, because he was black, they probably accepted him to law school anyway. Because of affirmative action, you see. Nobody remembers him taking any classes at either school, so he either took blowoff classes, skipped class a lot, or otherwise scammed his way through 8 years of school. And he got away with it, because he’s black.” The tin-foil brigade thinks the transcripts will show that he got shitty grades and should never have been accepted into either school in the first place. Or, if they show the exact opposite, then they’re terrible fakes that anyone can spot using Adobe Illustrator. Call this a strawman if you will, but I’ve heard it from multiple people with my own ears. People think this, and so it’s hard to respond graciously when someone is “just asking questions” about “why they maybe haven’t been released.” The underlying accusation is so absurd that I don’t think it warrants a civil response. on edit, I see that **Fotheringay-Phipps** beat me to the affirmative action punch. Amazing, right? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/66 "2012-04-23T14:56:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > none as far as I know have deliberately reported their grades. Kerry did, but he seems to be the only case. And IIRC, that was because a) Bush’s had already been leaked, so there was a concern for fairness and b) Kerry said he’d release all his military records, which included his transcripts. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/67 "2012-04-23T14:58:57Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Kerry did, but he seems to be the only case. And IIRC, that was because a) Bush’s had already been leaked, so there was a concern for fairness and b) Kerry said he’d release all his military records, which included his transcripts. Right. I read **John Mace** ’s linkand then forgot to edit that part out of my post. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/68 "2012-04-23T15:00:51Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Kerry did, but he seems to be the only case. And IIRC, that was because a) Bush’s had already been leaked, so there was a concern for fairness and b) Kerry said he’d release all his military records, which included his transcripts. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don’t think Kerry’s grades came out until AFTER the election - and that was only when he released more of his military records - I could be wrong on the timing though. It was only of note because it turned out that he and Bush were both slackers at Yale. Dan Quayle admitted to a C average in an interview I think. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/69 "2012-04-23T15:01:04Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > What the…!!! I will answer your simple question if you can answer one for me. > > I say he doesn’t release his college records as it isn’t necessary and isn’t in his best interests politically. Simple as that. I wouldn’t in the same situation and I have nothing to hide either. It is nothing more complex that that. > > My question to you–‘do you believe President Obama was born in Hawaii and that he released his actual birth certificate?’ > > Simple question really. If you believe he isn’t a US citizen then all interaction with you after this point would be fruitless. I ‘had’ an acquantance that was a birther and so no amount of documentation would change her mind. And it did come down to political ideology and I need to establish where you are coming from. > > However if you do believe he has released his birth certificate and he is a US citizen then we can discuss rationally why it wouldn’t be in his best interests to release that info. > > So I answered your question, please answer mine. > Thank you in advance. OK. Is it ok to say that I’m not 100% sure where he was born? I don’t know if anyone honestly can be 100% sure. One thing I’m pretty sure of…when the issue arose and for quite some time, he didn’t say … “Put it all out right away; let’s be done with this”. As for general questions about why I’d want to see his transcripts or other college records… because he doesn’t want me to. That is no less reasonable than reasons that those who immediately jump to his defense use to say why we shouldn’t see them. As for all of the reasonable folks in the middle… they might like to see them because he was the least experienced major candidate for the presidency in recent history and more info is better than less. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/70 "2012-04-23T15:02:56Z")
What about the charges that Glen Beck raped and murdered a girl in 1990? I want to know why he hasn’t responded to that accusation. If he doesn’t have anything to hide, why won’t he respond? HUH? HUH? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/71 "2012-04-23T15:06:35Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > OK. Is it ok to say that I’m not 100% sure where he was born? I don’t know if anyone honestly can be 100% sure. I think that’s a complete cop-out answer. Pretend someone just asked you where Tom Petty was born. The answer is right there in Wikipedia, but I suppose it could be wrong. It’s wikipedia after all, and Tom Petty might have been lying about his birthplace for the last 60 years anyway. So would you say, “I don’t think we can ever be 100% sure.”? Or would you say, “Gainesville.”? Now pretend Obama is Tom Petty and give a straight answer. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/72 "2012-04-23T15:08:04Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > OK. Is it ok to say that I’m not 100% sure where he was born? I don’t know if anyone honestly can be 100% sure. It’s true, I suppose we can never be 100% sure of the circumstances of anyone’s birth. For instance, I imagine that yours was a matter of falling straight out head-first onto an extremely hard surface, but I suppose that info wouldn’t be included on the birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/73 "2012-04-23T15:27:21Z")
> [@Tamex](#): > > It certainly can’t be that the right is concerned about Obama’s academic record–after all, Bush’s was leaked and they still voted for him! Given the anti-intellectualism that seems to prevail in the right wing, you might rethink the importance of grades. Academic Excellence = out of touch, snobby, arrogant ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/74 "2012-04-23T15:30:00Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > One thing I’m pretty sure of…when the issue arose and for quite some time, he didn’t say … “Put it all out right away; let’s be done with this”. That’s not true, though. The issue arose because he released a version of his birth certificate in response to rumors about his middle name. That’s when the real insanity started. > [@](#): > > As for general questions about why I’d want to see his transcripts or other college records… because he doesn’t want me to. No presidential candidate wants you to see his grades. Why is Obama different? > [@](#): > > As for all of the reasonable folks in the middle… they might like to see them because he was the least experienced major candidate for the presidency in recent history and more info is better than less. At the time he was running for president, his college graduation was almost 20 years in the past. What did you expect to learn about him from his grades and course selection that you couldn’t learn from his campaign, his years in the U.S. Senate, and his terms in the Illinois state senate? ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/75 "2012-04-23T15:43:45Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > OK. Is it ok to say that I’m not 100% sure where he was born? I don’t know if anyone honestly can be 100% sure. > > One thing I’m pretty sure of…when the issue arose and for quite some time, he didn’t say … “Put it all out right away; let’s be done with this”. > > As for general questions about why I’d want to see his transcripts or other college records… because he doesn’t want me to. > > That is no less reasonable than reasons that those who immediately jump to his defense use to say why we shouldn’t see them. > > As for all of the reasonable folks in the middle… they might like to see them because he was the least experienced major candidate for the presidency in recent history and more info is better than less. But the reality is if you are NOT convinced he was born here, releasing his transcripts would do nothing to convince you. What would it prove? If someone is able to modify his birth records why wouldn’t that person also alter his college records? So IF you believe he altered his birth certificate you would never believe anything he offered as proof now would you? Therein lies the reason he shouldn’t and won’t release his transcript. What possible political gain comes from that? Those citizens who don’t believe he was born here will never believe that these are his official transcripts–would you? Please be honest, but I think you know you wouldn’t be. So what possibly does he have to gain by releasing them? As for me I am 100% sure he was born right here in the US and have seen zero evidence that even implies he wasn’t. I have stated on this board numerous times that I am an Architect. No one here ‘knows’ if I am but I would say the preponderance of evidence proves that my claim is highly likely, if you read through my history here, it is clear that I am an Architect. The same goes for President Obama, the preponderance of evidence clearly shows he was born in Hawaii, and there has been nothing offered by those who spread this silly rumor to counter that. Nothing. As for you wanting to see his records, well I don’t want you to see mine either, nor would I bet would you be wanting me to see yours! You wanting to see them for him (or any public figure including President Bush) is out of line in my opinion. They are public figures, they don’t lose rights to private issues because they choose to serve the public. Would you in all honesty really release your college transcripts in this situation? Honestly? I am one of the folks in the middle. On this board (like most political discussions on most boards) tends to attract the extreme right and the extreme left–both very vocal groups who take positions often for purely political reasons. The preponderance of evidence of ‘your’ postings (I have seen your OP’s and comments before) would\*\* NOT\*\* lead me to believe you are in the middle. Sorry, I have to go by what you have written here. I would place you pretty much to the right. Many on the left here bashed President Bush and many on the right here bash President Obama, such is the political nature of these discussions, but please don’t pretend that either sides speaks for the middle. I am fairly sure the middle believes the current president was born in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/76 "2012-04-23T15:46:40Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I think that’s a complete cop-out answer. Pretend someone just asked you where Tom Petty was born. The answer is right there in Wikipedia, but I suppose it could be wrong. It’s wikipedia after all, and Tom Petty might have been lying about his birthplace for the last 60 years anyway. So would you say, “I don’t think we can ever be 100% sure.”? Or would you say, “Gainesville.”? > > Now pretend Obama is Tom Petty and give a straight answer. I guess it isn’t ok. Does it make a dif? How did the birth certificate become a part of this issue anyway? Was that a completely cop-out response by whoever first brought it up? OK…I believe I believe… now you’ll say you don’t believe me. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/77 "2012-04-23T15:49:18Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That’s not true, though. The issue arose because he released a version of his birth certificate in response to rumors about his middle name. That’s when the real insanity started. How about some dates? When the issue arose. When the short-form was released. When the long form was released? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/78 "2012-04-23T15:51:44Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > But the reality is if you are NOT convinced he was born here, releasing his transcripts would do nothing to convince you. Belkieve it or not…my curiousity about his college record has little to do with where he was born. It wouldn’t prove it anyway. You folks in the middle need to be wary of how both sides try to deflect certain things and make it about what it isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/79 "2012-04-23T15:53:08Z")
Then perhaps you could be more explicit about what this is “about”. What exactly do you hope to learn from his college transcripts? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/80 "2012-04-23T15:55:56Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I guess it isn’t ok. Does it make a dif? How did the birth certificate become a part of this issue anyway? Was that a completely cop-out response by whoever first brought it up? > > OK…I believe I believe… now you’ll say you don’t believe me. What? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=5)