# Obama's college transcripts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492 "2012-04-21T12:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/121 "2012-04-24T16:11:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This is curious. What I’ve heard about Obama is that he: > > a) Attended Harvard Law. > b) Edited, and then presided over, the _Harvard Law Review_. > c) Graduated _magna cum laude_. > d) Taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. > > Is there “suspicion” that one or more of those claims is untrue? Based on what? > > I would consider those fairly impressive “academic accomplishments” on their own. Should he have done more than that? As previous, the suspicion is that they were aided and abetted by affirmative action. Again, he’s obviously a very bright guy (& I personally don’t think this is an issue). But to the extent that people want to make a big deal about how accomplished he is, it raises the issue of just how much of that was melanin-enhanced. > [@Marley23](#): > > I guess we’re supposed to be scandalized by the suggestion that maybe Obama’s race helped him get into Columbia and/or Harvard, which I assume it did. Because as we all know, you have to be a geniuses to get into Harvard if you’re white, but if you’re a member of a minority group, they’ll take anybody. I’m sure it also helped that Barack Obama Sr. had a graduate degree from Harvard himself. You’re just framing the issue to your advantage. You, the reasonable guy, acknowledge that Obama’s race helped his academic achievements. What you object to is the other guys, the fools who think he done nothing in his life and that “if you’re a member of a minority group, they’ll take anybody”. But that’s not actually how it’s structured. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/122 "2012-04-24T16:17:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > As previous, the suspicion is that they were aided and abetted by affirmative action. > > Again, he’s obviously a very bright guy (& I personally don’t think this is an issue). But to the extent that people want to make a big deal about how accomplished he is, it raises the issue of just how much of that was melanin-enhanced.You’re just framing the issue to your advantage. You, the reasonable guy, acknowledge that Obama’s race helped his academic achievements. What you object to is the other guys, the fools who think he done nothing in his life and that “if you’re a member of a minority group, they’ll take anybody”. But that’s not actually how it’s structured. Affirmative action helps you get into Harvard, but it doesn’t help you do well. Even if he owes the opportunity to attend Harvard to affirmative action, Obama’s accomplishments there are his own. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/123 "2012-04-24T16:18:19Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > This is curious. What I’ve heard about Obama is that he: > > a) Attended Harvard Law. > b) Edited, and then presided over, the _Harvard Law Review_. > c) Graduated _magna cum laude_. > d) Taught Constitutional Law at the University of Chicago Law School. > > Is there “suspicion” that one or more of those claims is untrue? Based on what? > > I would consider those fairly impressive “academic accomplishments” on their own. Should he have done more than that? Hey, anyone can bring facts to this discussion! ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/124 "2012-04-24T16:25:33Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Affirmative action helps you get into Harvard, but it doesn’t help you do well. Even if he owes the opportunity to attend Harvard to affirmative action, Obama’s accomplishments there are his own. I don’t think that’s true. I think AA helps with most or all the items on VT’s list of accomplishments. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/125 "2012-04-24T16:31:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But that’s not actually how it’s structured. It is. The implication is that he got something he didn’t deserve because he’s black, notwithstanding the fact that he achieved some major distinctions at Harvard that indicate he belonged there and pulled his own weight. Of course, then they start saying he didn’t deserve some of those distinctions either and was only editor and became president of the Law Review because he’s black, and the whining continues _ad infinitum_ to cover just about everything about his life. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/126 "2012-04-24T16:33:19Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t think that’s true. I think AA helps with most or all the items on VT’s list of accomplishments. So basically, the accomplishments of any individual minority in America, especially any African American, are suspect and can be diminished because of Affirmative Action. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/127 "2012-04-24T16:37:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So basically, the accomplishments of any individual minority in America, especially any African American, are suspect and can be diminished because of Affirmative Action. Depends what type. Some are subject to AA and some are not. Obama had a record as legislator and Senator before he ran for president, and he now has three years as Prez to judge him by, and these are not related to AA. But if you’re talking about a field which is heavily influenced by AA - which education is - then that’s pretty much true. There’s no way around it. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/128 "2012-04-24T16:40:10Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Obama had a record as legislator and Senator before he ran for president, and he now has three years as Prez to judge him by, and these are not related to AA. [That depends on who you ask.](http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/obama_the_affirmative_action_president.html) It works two ways, of course: his degrees and Harvard resume contributed to his professional advancement, so those can in turn be dimissed as the products of affirmative action rather than his own accomplishments. And of course people who harp on this issue tend to consider everything else about Obama - people’s views of him, media coverage, and so on - as black exceptionalism and affirmative action in their own right. So from their standponit, everything about him is related to affirmative action. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/129 "2012-04-24T16:49:19Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > [That depends on who you ask.](http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/obama_the_affirmative_action_president.html) FTR, I agree that Obama would not be president if he was white. He would probably have gotten past McCain, but not Hillary. But that doesn’t relate to iiandyiiii’s point. Obama’s political accomplishments (or lack thereof) are public record, and anyone can judge for themselves whether they mean anything or not. By contrast, no one knows what was involved in Obama’s academic accomplishments - people are relying on those who judged him worthy of them. And this is where AA comes into play. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/130 "2012-04-24T16:54:33Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > FTR, I agree that Obama would not be president if he was white. If he was white he wouldn’t be Barack Obama. I think you’ve avoiding the point here. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/131 "2012-04-24T16:55:39Z")
What point have I been avoiding? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/132 "2012-04-24T16:56:48Z")
How would AA help him graduate magna cum laude? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/133 "2012-04-24T16:58:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > What point have I been avoiding? The point I am making is this: > [@Marley23](#): > > his degrees and Harvard resume contributed to his professional advancement, so those can in turn be dimissed as the products of affirmative action rather than his own accomplishments. And of course people who harp on this issue tend to consider everything else about Obama - people’s views of him, media coverage, and so on - as black exceptionalism and affirmative action in their own right. So from their standponit, everything about him is related to affirmative action. So the way I framed the issue is accurate: to the grade-obsessed, everything about Obama is ultimately related to affirmative action and everything he’s done up through getting elected can be dismissed for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/134 "2012-04-24T17:05:19Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Depends what type. Some are subject to AA and some are not. Obama had a record as legislator and Senator before he ran for president, and he now has three years as Prez to judge him by, and these are not related to AA. But if you’re talking about a field which is heavily influenced by AA - which education is - then that’s pretty much true. > > There’s no way around it. No way around it? How about _not_ diminishing the accomplishments of individual African Americans because of their race? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/135 "2012-04-24T17:20:58Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > How would AA help him graduate magna cum laude? Maybe not. That’s why I wrote “most or all”. The rest are pretty clear. > [@Marley23](#): > > The point I am making is this: > > So the way I framed the issue is accurate: to the grade-obsessed, everything about Obama is ultimately related to affirmative action and everything he’s done up through getting elected can be dismissed for that reason. I wasn’t avoiding that point, other than in refraining from pointing out that it was a non sequitur in the context of my exchange with iianyiii. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > No way around it? How about _not_ diminishing the accomplishments of individual African Americans because of their race? It is what it is. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/136 "2012-04-24T17:26:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > It is what it is. Ignoring it doesn’t make it go away. What “is what it is”? What am I ignoring? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/137 "2012-04-24T17:34:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What “is what it is”? What am I ignoring? I don’t know that you’re ignoring anything. However you’re apparently advocating ignoring the fact that AA makes it easier for some minority group members to achieve certain things that would be harder for those who do not benefit from AA. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/138 "2012-04-24T17:39:22Z")
Maybe some sort of asterisk beside each accomplishment, then, to remind everyone he achieved them while black? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/139 "2012-04-24T17:41:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I don’t know that you’re ignoring anything. However you’re apparently advocating ignoring the fact that AA makes it easier for some minority group members to achieve certain things that would be harder for those who do not benefit from AA. Setting aside my belief that getting into a certain university is not “an achievement” (rather, graduating is, or getting high grades is), my surprise is that you stated that _any_ educational achievement by an African American should be diminished and considered suspect because of their race. I don’t think _not_ diminishing/suspecting educational achievement by a given African American is “ignoring” any facts. I think it’s fair to say that graduating Magna Cum Laude from Harvard (for example) holds the exact same prestige whether the student is white or black (or other). ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/140 "2012-04-24T17:43:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Again, he’s obviously a very bright guy (& I personally don’t think this is an issue). But to the extent that people want to make a big deal about how accomplished he is, it raises the issue of just how much of that was melanin-enhance He’s the frickin’ _President of the United States of America_. How much more accomplishment do you want? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=8)