# Obama's college transcripts **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 21, 2012, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492 "2012-04-21T12:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/161 "2012-04-24T20:25:17Z")
Yup, I’m doubling down on my vote. And not just because this is the fourth page of the thread, which is a little late for pre-emptive “you don’t need to know” posts. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/162 "2012-04-24T20:30:53Z")
I’m putting it down as a failed attempt to Tea Party. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/163 "2012-04-24T21:00:05Z")
> [@yanceylebeef](#): > > Is there a rhetorical term for this “I’m just asking questions” form of muckraking? Rushing the Question? No, seriously, perhaps it’s a red herring debate tactic? —G! I can’t explain the time it takes to make you understand… . --Robin Zanders (Cheap Trick) . _Never Had a Lot to Lose_ . Lap of Luxury ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/164 "2012-04-24T21:43:45Z")
> [@JQPublic](#): > > You must understand, it is just enough that he is. > Do not question why or how. > You will be told all you need to know. > Consider yourself blessed to share the earth at the same time as him. Of course. There’s a pile of evidence (newspaper announcements, legal documents, etc.) that Obama was born in a certain place (Hawaii). It also makes sense he was born there, because his mother lived there at the time- and would have had to take a costly and long (and useless) flight to his supposed birthplace while several months pregnant. There’s ZERO evidence he was born anywhere else- no testimony, no documents, no nothing. What questions are left to ask? Note that JQPublic is a “birther” (and I think that’s all he’s posted about on the SDMB)- which is why I’m bringing that up. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/165 "2012-04-25T00:40:04Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [Think again](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2006/6/5/law-review-debates-affirmative-action-policy/). I read that whole article, and nowhere win it does it say anything about _magna cum laude_ being awarded on an affirmative action kind of qualification. I’m left wondering why it would be that you deliberately left out of your post that the article you were citing referred only to the _Harvard Law Review_ and not to the designation of _magna cum laude_ in graduation from the Harvard Law School. :dubious: It certainly looks as tho you were trying to mislead people into thinking that both, and not just one, of those things was subject to some kind of affirmative action program. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/166 "2012-04-25T01:48:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I read that whole article, and nowhere win it does it say anything about _magna cum laude_ being awarded on an affirmative action kind of qualification. > > I’m left wondering why it would be that you deliberately left out of your post that the article you were citing referred only to the _Harvard Law Review_ and not to the designation of _magna cum laude_ in graduation from the Harvard Law School. :dubious: > > It certainly looks as tho you were trying to mislead people into thinking that both, and not just one, of those things was subject to some kind of affirmative action program. Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down! Did you actually read through the whole exchange, or just look for something you think you can impugn? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/167 "2012-04-25T01:52:45Z")
FG, just out of curiosity, do you believe that the benefits of affirmative action generally exceed the benefits of being even a moderately well-off white guy? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/168 "2012-04-25T01:54:48Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down! > > Did you actually read through the whole exchange, or just look for something you think you can impugn? I read thru the whole exchange, and I did impugn your motive and your post. Also, you got the quarry phrase wrong. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/169 "2012-04-25T02:02:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Also, you got the quarry phrase wrong. There is no way to do it correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/170 "2012-04-25T02:24:19Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > This thread started out as some basic questions before your kind got all defensive. > > Transperency much? I’ve taken a quick look, and I can’t find Mitt’s transcript or tax info. Care to point it out to me? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/171 "2012-04-25T02:35:22Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > FG, just out of curiosity, do you believe that the benefits of affirmative action generally exceed the benefits of being even a moderately well-off white guy? A very complex issue with a lot of variables, and well beyond the scope of this thread. > [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I read thru the whole exchange, and I did impugn your motive and your post. That does not speak well of you. Prior to the post that you quoted, I had acknowledged that Magna cum laude was apparently not based on AA (posts #135 & #142), which has 2 implications. 1) the crux of the subsequent discussion was about the law review which is what was still up for discussion, and 2) it makes no sense in light of the above to assume that I was trying to imply something that I had already acknowledged to be apparently untrue. Considering that I did not explicitly make a claim as to what was included in that cite, your claim is baseless. And so, I think you were just looking for something to attack with and foolishly thought you found something, either because you failed to read the entire exchange or because you failed to understand it. > [@](#): > > Also, you got the quarry phrase wrong. That really sucks. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/172 "2012-04-25T03:06:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That does not speak well of you. I feel the same way about how your omission speaks of you. I guess we’re even on that score, then. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Prior to the post that you quoted, I had acknowledged that Magna cum laude was apparently not based on AA (posts #135 & #142), which has 2 implications. 1) the crux of the subsequent discussion was about the law review which is what was still up for discussion, and 2) it makes no sense in light of the above to assume that I was trying to imply something that I had already acknowledged to be apparently untrue. You’re still at it, with the use here twice of the weasel word “apparently”. Until you admit that no, MCL does not and never has had any kind of affirmative action component, the implicit conclusion is that you believe it _may_ have an affirmative action component. Thus, your explicit failure to acknowledge the lack of any AA component being mentioned in the article you cited logically leads to the conclusion that you were somehow trying to imply that because there was an AA factor in the selection of people for the Harvard Review, there is also the same factor for MCL. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Considering that I did not explicitly make a claim as to what was included in that cite, your claim is baseless. And so, I think you were just looking for something to attack with and foolishly thought you found something, either because you failed to read the entire exchange or because you failed to understand it. Oh, I understood it perfectly. You have a baseless belief that MCL is somehow determined not just by grades, but by race, but you think that you can’t prove it just yet. If you did not believe that, you wouldn’t need to say it “apparently” isn’t influenced by race; you’d just come right out and say that it is not influenced by race. ISTM that you sought to further possible doubt in readers by a sideways appeal to authority: “see? the Review used AA! How do you know MCL doesn’t as well? Just because it’s not discussed in the article doesn’t mean they don’t!” If that wasn’t your intent and your thought process, then just admit that no, MCL isn’t awarded on the basis of anything but GPA. Your semantic games and plays of strategic omission are more transparent than you think they are. > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > That really sucks. Yeah, for you it does. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/173 "2012-04-25T03:17:42Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > A very complex issue with a lot of variables, and well beyond the scope of this thread. Fair enough. Let’s try a different and simpler question. Do you have similar concerns about potentially unfair advantages afforded Michael Steele? Clarence Thomas? Condoleeza Rice? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/174 "2012-04-25T06:02:38Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’ve never heard anyone claim that Obama was a moron. Heck, **Shodan** has done it repeatedly _on this very message board._ > [@](#): > > However, there is some suspicion that his celebrated academic accomplishments have less to them that meets the eye. What reason has Obama given anyone to do so? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/175 "2012-04-25T11:58:46Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I’ve taken a quick look, and I can’t find Mitt’s transcript or tax info. Care to point it out to me? I hereby call for everything on both of them…how’s that? Nevermind that Romney’s upbringing and college era activities are likely to be known already. My references to “transperancy” relate to Obama’s claim that he would be more so when he became President… please correct me if that didn’t happen… the claim that is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/176 "2012-04-25T12:19:52Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > My references to “transperancy” relate to Obama’s claim that he would be more so when he became President… He wasn’t saying he’d be transparent with grades from college. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/177 "2012-04-25T12:24:13Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > …In the most recent “Star Trek” movie, Mr. Spock told people “F\*\*\* you” by saying “Live long and prosper.” Obama should tell anyone asking for his transcripts to so “Live long and prosper.”😃 I clipped the above to give me an excuse to post [this](http://io9.com/5898998/heres-barack-obama-flashing-the-vulcan-salute-with-the-original-lieutenant-uhura). As a Texan, I’ve had lots of practice in ignoring Republican foolishness. So I’ll let the resident teabaggers continue to blather on; they aren’t helping their cause. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/178 "2012-04-25T12:48:25Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Complete non-response, which indicates to me that you are not operating on the level here, but I’ll answer you anyway. You are demanding confidential information as a sort of fishing expedition. This same behavior would generally be considered out of line if carried out by law enforcement authorities. So, kindly justify your right to demand, and reason for demanding, such information. I’m not demanding anything and I have no right to demand anything myself anyway. I’m generally talking about the information gathering and releasing game that is part of the political process. To liken it to law enforcement is pretty silly. If I put forth a plausible hypothetical or two the obvious response would be “Ya, but there’s no evidence of that.” so what’s the point? And if I may… the OP was an attempt to get some info that was turned political by others. You might have noticed a similar thread that I started subsequently that remained in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![JQPublic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac8455/32.png) [@JQPublic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JQPublic)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/179 "2012-04-25T13:33:27Z")
“Note that JQPublic is a “birther” (and I think that’s all he’s posted about on the SDMB)- which is why I’m bringing that up.” You must have me confused with someone else. I never brought up the birth issue in this thread or any previous thread. Prove that I did. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492/180 "2012-04-25T13:48:56Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Do you have similar concerns about potentially unfair advantages afforded Michael Steele? Clarence Thomas? Condoleeza Rice? I’ve not expressed any concerns about the potentially unfair advantages afforded Obama or anyone else. I’ve merely noted that there is reason to believe that his academic accomplishments were aided by AA and thus these are less of a proof of his accomplishments than would be similar academic accomplishments by non-minority members. And the same would apply to other minority members in similar circumstances. In that context, I’m not sure of what you’re asking about WRT these people. I believe I once saw written that Clarence Thomas was the beneficiary of AA in school, but I’m not sure, and I don’t know about the others. There is little doubt that Clarence Thomas would not be on the SC today if not for his skin color. Similar _might_ be true of CR. I am not that familiar with Michael Steele’s career or accomplishments that you might be referring to - I would guess that his appointment as RNC chair was not unrelated to skin color, and he was not a big success in that role, FWIW. As previous, in the case of all these people, they have a large body of work with which to judge them on, much like Obama, and as such - again much like Obama - their possible benefit from AA is not that big of a deal in assessing their accomplishments. For example, in the case of CT, if his accomplishment is “he was appointed to the SC”, then sure, it’s less than if some vanilla white guy made it to the SC, because CT was helped by ethnic considerations (though even in the case of white guys there are frequently political considerations in SC appointments, so you have to look at each case). But you don’t have to look at just the mere fact of his being appointed. He’s been on the court a while, and has written any number of opinions, and you can judge the body of his work. And so on for the others (again, including Obama). You seem to be eager to engage in a debate over the merits of AA (and FTR it absolutely has some merit, along with the downside) but the issue we’re discussing here is much narrower. The issue is Obama’s college transcripts, and whether their release would be meaningful. And my point is and has been that to the extent that they’re meaningful, it would be for the purpose of shedding some light on the extent to which Obama’s academic achievements were earned by intelligence and hard work versus skin color. Now I myself have said consistently throughout this thread that I don’t think Obama’s college transcripts are relevant, because as I’ve been saying all along and reiterated in this post, I don’t think Obama needs to be judged at this point by anything that he did or didn’t do in college. But to the extent that other people keep trotting out his scholastic achievments, that makes his transcripts an issue, and to this contributes to keeping this issue alive (to the limited extent that it is). **Snowboarder Bo** , I’ve spent more time with you and your silliness than you or it deserve already. My previous comments stand, notwithstanding your subsequent doubling down on your nonsense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-college-transcripts/619492.md?page=10)