# Obama's Debt: Unpaid in full **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322 "2011-08-03T14:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/61 "2011-08-03T20:52:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > We get it. You’re a mindless knee-jerk partisan, who cannot comprehend anything beyond the usual “four legs good, two legs bad”. We’re fine with that, because it represents as close to rational thought as you can manage. We don’t expect you to do any better. _Turning from the mirror, **Shodan** choked back a sob and trod heavily toward the grey void of another long, miserable day._ ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/62 "2011-08-03T21:12:04Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > That is not what I am saying at all. At most I think that the Democrats are _slightly_ less bad for the nation than the Republicans. What I am saying is that, under the terms of this deal, especially given the looming expiration of the Bush era tax cuts, I think that we have a shot of getting out of these economic doldrums and returning to some measure of prosperity and security. ?? What does that have to do with the ultimate goal - winning the most seats in the house and the presidency? You act like the whole purpose of an election was to see who would run the country best! Remember, the goal here is simply to make sure Obama [does not get re-elected.](http://www.politicolnews.com/mcconnell-gop-goal-get-rid-of-obama/) That’s all. \ ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/63 "2011-08-03T21:18:38Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > To be honest you are not worth a thoughtful and nuanced response. Well, good, I am glad you don’t feel called on to go beyond your capabilities. > [@](#): > > I look forward to the day when your type of thinking is a relic of the past, gratefully forgotten. Well, see, there’s your problem. My type of thinking isn’t what you claim it is. I’ve been getting this shit since I started here. Like I said, y’all cannot stand it that not everyone is in lockstep with you. So you automatically assume bad faith. It’s OK - I realize (as I said) you aren’t capable of real thought. As you make abundantly clear. I think, although I am not sure, that accusations of trolling should be forthcoming shortly. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Omegaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e480ec/32.png) [@Omegaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omegaman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/64 "2011-08-03T21:31:34Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > _Turning from the mirror, **Shodan** choked back a sob and trod heavily toward the grey void of another long, miserable day._ I don’t think that was a sob he was choking on. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/65 "2011-08-03T21:31:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The threat of a veto is used more often than the veto itself. Congrtess usually knows upfront whether a President will sign or veto. When the veto is used, it’s usually not tied to the potential for a government shutdown, and sometimes Congress will submit something knowing it will get vetoed for symbolic reasons. > > Obama has used the veto twice. Bush used it 12 times and was overridden once. Bush was overridden four times; HR 1495, HR 2419, HR 6124, and and HR 6331 were all vetoed, all overriden by both houses, and became law. That is the highest percentage since Andrew Johnson, though Bush’s 12 vetoes were very. very few so I’m not sure it means a lot. By comparison, Clinton used 36. Bush 1.0 used 44 in just one term. Reagan used 78. But they were all pikers next to FDR, who used 635 vetoes. Harry Truman pulled the trigger 250 times. Even kindly old Ike pulled out the veto 181 times. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/66 "2011-08-03T21:36:03Z")
Y’all may as well just elect your president to a single 6-year term. Then you’d get some bold I-don’t-give-a-fuck action from the chief exec. As it is, I figure Obama’s second term (and I predict he will get it) will be more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/67 "2011-08-03T21:39:07Z")
Peace, prosperity, and amity are boring. I’m cool with dull. I’ve had just about as much excitement as I can stand. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/68 "2011-08-03T21:40:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Y’all may as well just elect your president to a single 6-year term. Then you’d get some bold I-don’t-give-a-fuck action from the chief exec. > > As it is, I figure Obama’s second term (and I predict he will get it) will be more interesting. I agree. One term is spent campaigning for a second term by trying not to annoy people on both sides of the fence. Get in, hit the ground running, work your ass off for six years, then go away. Want to run again? Okay, come back in 12 years. ---
**Author:** ![Plumbkrazy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f05b48/32.png) [@Plumbkrazy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plumbkrazy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/69 "2011-08-03T21:56:59Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I am so fucking sick of having to choose between “incompetent” and “evil” at the polls. That sums it up for me, although I might replace “incompetent” with “spineless”. ---
**Author:** ![Bri2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/48db29/32.png) [@Bri2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bri2k)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/70 "2011-08-03T22:50:45Z")
I voted for President Obama. I had hope that things would really change. My excitement turned to pure elation when he was sworn in. Unfortunately, all he’s done is prove that race is no barrier when it comes to selling out the American people (those who aren’t rich). Every week I read about some embezzler getting locked away for years for stealing a few thousand dollars, yet there’s not even a hint that the swindlers who brought down the economy will ever be made to answer for their crimes. The other side of the aisle offers no better and neither does any third party candidate. I can only think of these two quotes: Huey Long: "The Democrats and Republicans remind me of a patent medicine salesman who had two tonics. One was called Highpoppalowrum and the other was called Lowpoppahighrum. When asked the difference, he said “There is considerable difference. With Highpoppalowrum, we skin the bark off the Poppa tree from the top down to make the tonic. With Lowpoppahighrum, we skin the bark from the bottom up.” And from the old Jack Paar show: "There’s a little old lady in Vermont who was asked which politicians she supports. She replied “I never vote. It only encourages them.” Bri2k ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2011, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/71 "2011-08-03T23:59:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ah, you liberals, with your weak, indecisive views. Who says I’m a liberal? Seriously, you think only liberals would support the President? I ain’t a liberal, unless you have some idiolectic definition of liberal that most people don’t share. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/72 "2011-08-04T01:25:20Z")
Idiolectic _adj._ A word that does not currently exist, but we’re working on it. Synonyn: _brickeristic_, antonym, _'lucidoid_. Works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/73 "2011-08-04T02:03:39Z")
I’m really glad I don’t give a shit about any of this. I haven’t voted in ever and I don’t plan to start. There’s no reason to vote; no matter who’s in office, the same shit will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Bri2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/48db29/32.png) [@Bri2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bri2k)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/74 "2011-08-04T02:22:27Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m really glad I don’t give a shit about any of this. I haven’t voted in ever and I don’t plan to start. There’s no reason to vote; no matter who’s in office, the same shit will happen. You may be much wiser than many of us. Bri2k ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/75 "2011-08-04T05:06:23Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m really glad I don’t give a shit about any of this. I haven’t voted in ever and I don’t plan to start. There’s no reason to vote; no matter who’s in office, the same shit will happen. Except it won’t. Yes, _shit_ will happen no matter who’s in office, but not the _same_ shit. Details matter. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/76 "2011-08-04T05:30:45Z")
I remember being much more ambivalent about the differences between the parties back in 2000. The Bush Administration cured me of that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/77 "2011-08-04T06:49:57Z")
I wonder what the OP thinks of **Shodan’s** encouragement of his views? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/78 "2011-08-04T07:43:56Z")
I’m disappointed that he had to compromise, and am definitely worried about the precedent it sets. However, I think we got the best deal possible that didn’t include tax increases. The cuts that are agreed to are very back loaded, set to occur in mostly in 2013 and beyond. This is good for several reasons. First off, it gives the economy time to recover. If the economy has recovered, that is when we want to cut spending and raise taxes anyway. If it hasn’t recovered, hopefully the second advantage will help us. The second advantage is that congress has 2 years to undo the cuts or spend the cut money elsewhere. The third advantage is purely partisan. If the cuts don’t happen until 2013, we won’t feel the pain until after the election. Furthermore the triggered cuts that happen if the super committee can’t come to a deal favor Democrats quite a bit. Half of the cuts would come from the military, but the military doesn’t take up half the budget, so a greatly disproportionate percentage of the cuts come from that. Now, if you argue that neither side wants to cut medicare and social security, it is a lot closer to proportional, but Republicans have to at least pretend to want to cut those. Plus the medicare “cuts” that are supposed to scare the Democrats only cut the amount that medicare reimburses pharmaceutical companies and doctors. If I remember correctly, it was the Republicans who argued that Medicare shouldn’t negotiate for lower prices, while Democrats argued it should. To me, this sounds a lot like a backdoor way of negotiating lower prices. Now, I’d prefer we got a real compromise in this round of negotiations, but at least it sets us up well for next time. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/79 "2011-08-04T08:38:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’m not asking anyone to regret their past. 2008 is long since past. Like you, I am looking forward to 2012. > > Obama’s only real difficulty is not that people who voted for him in 2008 will vote Republican. It’s that they might stay home and not vote at all. I’m not talking about the primaries, where for both sides the partisans tend to be over-represented. I mean the general election, when “hope and change” turns to “nothing he’s done seems to matter”. > > It’s not a done deal, of course, and a lot depends on a lot. And the yellow dog Democrats who make up 80% of the SDMB will vote for Obama no matter what. He can count on that. I am talking about everyone else. > > We’ll see, but the OP gives me hope. > > Regards, > Shodan maybe I’m missing something, but in my view this condenses to: “I want to insult the majority of the SDMB and I hope Obama loses.” > [@Shodan](#): > > No, this is just bullshit you dolts trot out every time someone mentions supporting someone other than a Democrat. > > It’s actually kind of funny to see the knee-jerk knuckleheads accusing other people of blind partisanship. > > Regards, > Shodan ‘No, YOU are a poopyhead’ > [@Shodan](#): > > Gosh, what a thoughtful and nuanced response. > > Look, we all know that it is beyond your intellectual grasp to understand that there can be conscientious motives to vote other than Democrat. You don’t have to prove it again. > > We get it. You’re a mindless knee-jerk partisan, who cannot comprehend anything beyond the usual “four legs good, two legs bad”. We’re fine with that, because it represents as close to rational thought as you can manage. We don’t expect you to do any better. > > So really, these kind of penis-compensation posts aren’t strictly necessary. > > Regards, > Shodan ‘You are a poopyhead with a small penis’ > [@Shodan](#): > > Well, good, I am glad you don’t feel called on to go beyond your capabilities. Well, see, there’s your problem. My type of thinking isn’t what you claim it is. > > I’ve been getting this shit since I started here. Like I said, y’all cannot stand it that not everyone is in lockstep with you. So you automatically assume bad faith. > > It’s OK - I realize (as I said) you aren’t capable of real thought. As you make abundantly clear. > > I think, although I am not sure, that accusations of trolling should be forthcoming shortly. > > Regards, > Shodan 'you are a poopyhead and I’m not a troll ‘cause I said so.’ Wow, did you notice how many arguments and valid points you produced? This is a request from someone who doesn’t have a dog in american politics to please clarify why the Republicans did have a point, other than damaging the Obama administration, in threatening to let the world economy come crashing down if they didn’t get their way (I believe no tax-raise for the 250,000 + bracket I believe, please correct me if I missed something). If you think you can get away without making some rational point, you really are a Troll. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2011, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/80 "2011-08-04T11:45:25Z")
**The Librarian** , this is all pretty standard fare for the Right. First you attempt to hijack or otherwise define the terms of the debate, next you attempt to discredit your opponents by baseless accusation (i.e. if only we were capable of nuanced thought we would get it) and then when all else fails you play the victim card (as in “we are so put upon because we are not in lock step with you. We aren’t acting in bad faith! Gosh no!”). To be fair, I don’t think that everyone on the other side of the isle is like this. I think that there are still people that are buying into this whole notion that wealth will trickle down and that the super wealthy will start to create jobs if only they can feel secure enough in their billions. You also have a lot of aspirational voting going on where people think that if they vote the way that the wealthy elite tell them to they will eventually get included in the club. The problem is that none of this has a basis in reality. What creates jobs and prosperity is when consumers have money to buy stuff, concentrating wealth in a very few hands will only accomplish concentrating wealth in a very few hands and, by the way, what is good for corporations is not good for the American people as a rule (I really give a shit that “American” companies are doing well if they are creating jobs overseas and sitting on trillions). Bottom line, at this point, is that our elected leaders on both sides of the isle no longer represent the American people in any real or significant way. The sooner we all wake up to that fact and start living in a reality based fashion the sooner we can start to make some real change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322.md?page=5)