# Obama's Debt: Unpaid in full **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322 "2011-08-03T14:38:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/121 "2011-08-05T04:03:15Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > Face facts. If you want a progressive government, you need to elect a progressive majority to Congress. Even if you could somehow elect a progressive president, what the heck can he accomplish without the help of congress? It is a simple fact that Obama, although not a progressive himself, has enacted more of the progressive agenda than a progressive president could have. I’ve got a congregation of Wyden, Merkley, and Blumenhauer. That’s pretty pinko. It’s not my fault we can’t enact a progressive agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/122 "2011-08-05T04:07:33Z")
> [@The Other Waldo Pepper](#): > > I’m one of those! > [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > You reap what you sow buddy. The president can’t do it alone. Humor. It is a…difficult concept. /Vulcan ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/123 "2011-08-05T04:56:39Z")
> [@Invisible\_Chimp](#): > > I’ve got a congregation of Wyden, Merkley, and Blumenhauer. That’s pretty pinko. It’s not my fault we can’t enact a progressive agenda. I’m jealous. Or rather, I miss that feeling. Luckily Scott Brown is up for reelection this year, and there’s rumors of a serious “Draft Elizabeth Warren” campaign. And I’m in Mike Capuano’s district, one of I believe eight that didn’t even have a Republican challenger in 2010. I think the last time I saw figures for this section of Boston, registered Democrats outnumbered registered Republicans 16:1, not even counting registered independents like me who are for all intents and purposes incredibly solid Democrats. There seems to be so much of this country that I just couldn’t imagine living in. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/125 "2011-08-05T13:15:49Z")
> [@waterj2](#): > > There seems to be so much of this country that I just couldn’t imagine living in. The thing is, it’s at worst a purple country, even in the middle of some of the reddest states. I moved to Illinois from Georgia last year, and it was definitely a huge shift in local expectations of government. (It’s amazing the infrastructure of transportation, fire & police availability, well maintained roads, parks, sidewalks, trails, etc. etc. etc. you can get when the prevailing attitude doesn’t equate taxation with theft.) But even so, my new district, Illinois 11th, sent a tea party pod person to Congress in January (to join the financial geniuses insisting we shrink our way into economic growth), and my new state elected a Republican Senator who “now has doubts” about anthropogenic global warming\* to Obama’s old seat. At the same time, even though GA now has one of the worst crooks in the state as its Governor (corrupt Republican Nathan Deal, replacing the fairly decent Republican Sonny Perdue), they also have a pretty good progressive history from the metropolitan centers in the state. Rep. John Lewis, as an example. No matter your political leanings, you can probably find good company in any state, and can surely affect local politics (as, obviously folks like **waterj2** and **Enderw24** have stated they do, blessings of the Buddha, the FSM and Og be upon them). \*[sub]Apparently because Al Gore might’ve cheated on Tipper. Sadly, I’m not kidding.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/126 "2011-08-05T13:22:17Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Clinton tried and failed when she tried to ram through a health care bill. Obama managed to get something rather than nothing. I’m not up on my recent American history; when was Hillary Clinton president again? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/127 "2011-08-05T13:31:18Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I’m not up on my recent American history; when was Hillary Clinton president again? She was never POTUS. But as First Lady, her effort on health care reform was significant. Chairperson of the [Task Force on National Health Care Reform](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993), reporting to her husband, then President of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/128 "2011-08-05T14:35:51Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > **Enderw24** , were you one of those Obama 2008 voters who were dissapointed last year and allowed the Republicans to gain control of the House by staying home or voting Republican ? Frankly, I found it both amazing and disappointing that the general public redirected the blame for the crappy economy away from those who caused the crappy economy and shifted it to the people who happened to be in office at the time and couldn’t clean up the mess in time. But that’s neither here nor there. The answer to your question is no. I voted. And I voted for Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/129 "2011-08-05T14:55:05Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Frankly, I found it both amazing and disappointing that the general public redirected the blame for the crappy economy away from those who caused the crappy economy and shifted it to the people who happened to be in office at the time and couldn’t clean up the mess in time. But that’s neither here nor there. > The answer to your question is no. I voted. And I voted for Democrats. Well then don’t lose patience and keep voting for democrats and Obama and give Obama the wherewithall to push through the 2008 agenda. To expect him to ram reason into the Rebublicans and make them vote for his agenda is simply futile. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/130 "2011-08-05T18:26:51Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Frankly, I found it both amazing and disappointing that the general public redirected the blame for the crappy economy away from those who caused the crappy economy and shifted it to the people who happened to be in office at the time and couldn’t clean up the mess in time. What I’m finding amazing is that Congress spent the last two months sending the entire economy into stasis with their “Will we default or won’t we?” debacle and now people are all surprised and aghast that today’s job report was mediocre. (And yes, it’s all somehow Obama’s fault.) Yeah, sure, if I were a business owner, I’d have been happy to hire loads of new people in the face of a very probable economic tsunami. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/131 "2011-08-05T21:26:29Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > What I’m finding amazing is that Congress spent the last two months sending the entire economy into stasis with their “Will we default or won’t we?” debacle and now people are all surprised and aghast that today’s job report was mediocre. (And yes, it’s all somehow Obama’s fault.) > > Yeah, sure, if I were a business owner, I’d have been happy to hire loads of new people in the face of a very probable economic tsunami. Didn’t you get the memo? It’s all Obama’s fault, all the time. Business hates the uncertainty of regulations. However, the uncertainty of whether or not the country will go into default? meh… ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/132 "2011-08-05T21:58:20Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > Got any supporting citations and arguments for that scenario? From where I sit, I’m imagining interest rates spiralling up and essential government services shutting down. I’m imagining massive layoffs and reductions of aid resources at the same time. Prioritization of debt obligations is not enshrined in current law. [As far back as 1985 the GAO asserted](http://redbook.gao.gov/14/fl0065142.php) > [@](#): > > WE ARE AWARE OF NO STATUTE OR ANY OTHER BASIS FOR CONCLUDING THAT TREASURY IS REQUIRED TO PAY OUTSTANDING OBLIGATIONS IN THE ORDER IN WHICH THEY ARE PRESENTED FOR PAYMENT UNLESS IT CHOOSES TO DO SO. TREASURY IS FREE TO LIQUIDATE OBLIGATIONS IN ANY ORDER IT FINDS WILL BEST SERVE THE INTERESTS OF THE UNITED STATES. The OMB has similar powers, called apportionment, although they have restrictions on them that were imposed in '74 after Nixon jerked around the accounts payable for various programs and contracts for political reasons. They’re not allowed to delay payments indefinitely, only for a month or so in most cases, or maybe longer depending on the lifecycle of the program/contract.[This Slate article](http://www.slate.com/id/2300207/) argues that the existing powers of the Treasury and the OMB are enough to jockey around the current revenues to avoid defaulting on debts, although it means lots of Federal Employees and perhaps contractors would get either furloughed or delayed. [Another piece, in the Atlantic](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2011/07/us-default-is-possible-treasury-may-not-prioritize-debt-payments/242679/), argues the rating’s agencies already assume that if the debt ceiling holds that prioritization will take place and debts will be honored above program expenditures, although that isn’t clearly spelled out in law. [The Treasury itself says it’s all fucked up](http://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/Proposals-to-Prioritize-Payments-on-US-Debt-Not-Workable-Would-Not-Prevent-Default.aspx) and it doesn’t have guidance on who to pay and who not to and that prioritization or apportionment is just putting icing on a shit sandwich and default will happen sooner or later so stop yanking us around already. Senator Toomey, who [proposed a prioritization bill](http://toomey.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=218) says Treasury is fearmongering and his list of prioritization would have been a good thing and Treasury are assholes for not supporting it. The Congressional Research Service [put together a 25 page paper](http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41633.pdf)(pdf) which basically says the same thing Treasury did. That the situation is bad news and although there is wiggle room it won’t be enough to be anything like sustainable. The wiggle room would be in the absence of guiding law, so it would likely spawn lots of court cases and drama, so just don’t go there is their final recommendation. In any case, there isn’t a clear law which says “Starve the widows and orphans, but make sure you pay Gordon Gecko.” A bold and decisive President could do out of necessity what Nixon did out of avarice, probably with similar results in the end(lots of lawsuits and a law enacted to keep it from happening ever again) but a 40% reduction in revenue could be navigated for a period of time without widows and orphans starving or soldiers not getting their combat rations. > [@xenophon41](#): > > You’re angry at Obama because he stepped up and stopped it and you think that’s a usurpation of responsibility? Frankly, that’s insane. But at least it’s an arguable position, unlike the OP’s firm belief that the country was betrayed by Obama giving the Republicans essentially pennies down on the trillion bucks they demanded be cut out of the budget. He didn’t stop it. He just stood in front of everyone every day and talked about big deals and fixing the problem permanently but he actually has zero power to do anything about it, and the results bear that out. I’m not angry at him. He’s doing what his predecessors, dating back to at least JFK, possibly FDR has done, and that’s get dragged into the Congressional mudwrestling. I’m saying we can’t afford that anymore. Congress is theoretically the most powerful branch of government, they can override vetoes, they can impeach Presidents, SCotUS Justices, they’re at least half of the process of Amending the Constitution. But they’re not getting either the credit or the blame for what’s happening in the country. The President has become that face and that voice, largely because they’ve sought out the spotlight. They become every Congressperson’s best friend because most members of Congress need the campaign support from the only really well-known member of government when an election cycle comes up. So the President uses all these non-Constitutional tools, his bully pulpit, promises of fundraising, promises of endorsement, and the party system to try to fight with the people who have actual votes and when those with actual votes don’t care for his fundraising, or promises, or his party’s support, then he’s toothless. As the Republicans proved during the Bush tax cut debacle, and proved again here. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/133 "2011-08-05T22:40:28Z")
OK, let me review, **Mtgman** ; you’re saying first there would’ve been no defaulting on debt because even though there’s no established legal requirement or operative procedural guidance assuring that debts will be prioritized over expenses, there is ample assurance among rating agencies and Congress that prioritization of debts would occur. I can actually accept that. But then you assert almost casually that although “Federal employees and contractors” may assuredly get furloughed or delayed due to drastic prioritization, a bold and decisive POTUS like Mr. Obama could assure, for an indefinite period of time, that widows and orphans would “probably” not starve and soldiers would probably not be denied combat rations. This ignores two rather glaring consequences, does it not? First, many of those widows and orphans, along with non widowed spouses and non orphaned children, rely for the provision of their roofs, clothing and food on the income earned by those federal workers and employees of contracting companies you mentioned and/or on the product of the machinations, however self centered, of the Gordon Geckoes on Wall Street. And second, those rating agencies were not actually going to wait for overdue T-bills to start languishing in the Treasury’s inbox before they downrated the US, were they now? It was the threat of Congressional failure to approve debt responsibility that was the trigger for _that_ outcome, and all the attendant consequences tied to it. > [@](#): > > He didn’t stop it. He just stood in front of everyone every day and talked about big deals and fixing the problem permanently but he actually has zero power to do anything about it, and the results bear that out. Nonsense. Utter and absolute twaddle. The President spoke about deal making because he was bloody well hip deep in negotiations, _at the request of Congress_, negotiations which the results quite well demonstrate were successfully accomplished -surprisingly without actually delivering anything the hostage takers had highlighted as nonnegotiable! Did you miss all those cries for Presidential leadership from the Orange Man and his teabagging cohort while you were developing your sanguine serenity over their recklessness? As for the rest of your complaint, I note with astonishment that an apparently aware and conscious adult American desires his President to show some leadership by choosing not to lead. Because in your view he’s toothless anyway. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/134 "2011-08-05T23:11:15Z")
As to the possibilities if the government had been denied the ability to issue new debt. I’m not saying it would have been milk and honey. It would have sucked a bunch. A faster drop into the second dip of this probable double-dip recession would be the most likely outcome. Obama had no good choices, but there were things he could have done, within the scope of the office of the President, which could have cushioned the blow for the most vulnerable Americans. In reality that’s about all he could have done, act as an airbag when we hit a wall. He may be able to save lives, but we’re still going to be all kinds of fucked up. Obama is playing the legislature’s game. There’s no way to win since he’s not a legislator anymore. The only way to win is not to play. He needs to show leadership in the Constitutionally defined role of the PotUS. If Boehner is calling him for help, he should say, truthfully, that he has no authority in the legislative process until a bill hits his desk. He will happily give advice on what he is likely to sign versus veto, but that’s it. He’s going hat in hand to freshmen House Members and trying to convince them not to torpedo the country. What he should be doing is redirecting the press corps directly to that Member’s office and saying “I don’t have a bill on my desk, here’s who to ask about why.” Why do you seem to think Obama has responsibility for shaping legislation now that he’s no longer even a Senator? What in hell makes it a good use of his time to argue with freshman tea party ideologues? The fact that their party leadership, who have much more in terms of actual leverage, aren’t getting anywhere is a huge red flag, but he just jumped right into that tiger’s den anyway. Oh, and please, please define for me what you think the pros and cons of the deal which were passed are and how they line up with progressive ideals. The characterization of the outcome as “successfully accomplished” seems to be unique to yourself. We may have swerved to avoid the wall, but we’re still headed for the cliff, and accelerating with bullshit like automatic cuts. Automatic cuts are as brilliant a tactic as tax cuts that expire. All you have to do is muster a minority to block an action and you get your way now and in the future. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/135 "2011-08-06T00:11:02Z")
Obama grabbed the wheel to keep the bus on the road. I frankly don’t care that his CDL is expired. And apparently 99% of the country expects him to drive the legislature from the passenger seat, thanks to that precedent you think was established with JFK or maybe FDR. (I’d say it started at least with Jefferson, but I’ll moot whatever president you’d like to blame.) The problem with not playing is that it isn’t a way to win, it’s only a sure way to lose. I don’t want Obama to miss a second term, so I applaud his leadership. You may call it going “hat in hand” to the Teatards, but I call it schooling them. > [@](#): > > Oh, and please, please define for me what you think the pros and cons of the deal which were passed are and how they line up with progressive ideals. Well, I outlined that in [this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14089165&postcount=21) and [this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14095778&postcount=61) over in the Elections thread. Rather than repeat, I’ll summarize: The deal does not and could not ever have lined up with progressive ideals. Wish for that in one hand and spit into the other and tell me which one fills up faster. But aside from some guaranteed cuts to the Defense budget, all the sops to Tea Party austerity demands are smoke and mirrors, easily (and politically quietly) reversible. The deal also prevents further hostage taking over the debt limit this election cycle. It also prevents a budget showdown for this year and sets next year’s budget most of the way through the process. It disposes of the demands for a Balanced Budget Amendment by requiring an up or down vote in the House for passage up to the Senate, where everyone knows it will die. It takes nothing out of this year’s budget and something less than $25 billion out of next year’s. This is not enough by itself to drag the economy. It protects entitlement programs from spending cuts or caps. It sets up a special committee (so called Super Congress) whose function is to spotlight the ideological battles and allow the Tea Party ethos to shine for all to see. That’s a good thing, because a) the Tea Party are really pretty obviously fucked in the head, and b) no damage can be done because nothing will get decided by that committee. And it clears the stage for continuing the real discussion on job creation, and allows genuine argument from this toothless-President-who-gave-away-deep-spending-cuts about real investments in infrastructure to promote job growth. But the deal is dangerous, in that it depends on enough voter turnout among the sane to return a Democratic majority to the House and preserve the bare majority in the Senate. Otherwise actual cuts to entitlements are probably coming. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/136 "2011-08-06T00:46:57Z")
Aaaaaand, S&P has just downgraded the US credit rating to AA plus from AAA. This will increase borrowing costs for the US Government, effectively increasing the deficit. Way to go Tea Party and the Republican spineless weasels who now take their orders from the 20% of the population who think that tax increases should be off the table to fix the deficit. Hope you like the result. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/137 "2011-08-06T04:25:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Aaaaaand, S&P has just downgraded the US credit rating to AA plus from AAA. This will increase borrowing costs for the US Government, effectively increasing the deficit. > > Way to go Tea Party and the Republican spineless weasels who now take their orders from the 20% of the population who think that tax increases should be off the table to fix the deficit. > > Hope you like the result. All the financial whizes are telling people not to sell off or trade their positions. Well, I did so back when this whole kerfuffel was still in the pissing stage and I’m glad I did so. It’s only going to get worse. What a bunch of stupid motherfuckers: cut spending during a recession and zero out revenue so you can’t spend even if you need to. Brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/138 "2011-08-06T04:42:54Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Aaaaaand, S&P has just downgraded the US credit rating to AA plus from AAA. This will increase borrowing costs for the US Government, effectively increasing the deficit. > > Way to go Tea Party and the Republican spineless weasels who now take their orders from the 20% of the population who think that tax increases should be off the table to fix the deficit. > > Hope you like the result. I still don’t get why making it harder to pay off your debt is supposedly a good thing. It’s like charging people who are overdrawn more money. You know, that thing that leads those same people to file for bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/139 "2011-08-06T08:11:10Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I voted for him because I thought he would support what I supported and because I thought he could get things done. It turns out that neither is the case. I’ve never taken you for someone who was either willfully ignorant, stupid or insane, but if this were all I had to go on to figure you out, I’d wonder if you were all three. He couldn’t get things done? Really? You do know that the 111th Congress was the most productive since the fucking 1960s, or don’t you? Maybe not, since you think he couldn’t get things done. [http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-22/no-congress-since-1960s-makes-most-laws-for-americans-as-111th.html](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-22/no-congress-since-1960s-makes-most-laws-for-americans-as-111th.html) > [@](#): > > For the first time since President Theodore Roosevelt began the quest for a national health-care system more than 100 years ago, the Democrat-led House and Senate took the biggest step toward achieving that goal by giving 32 million Americans access to insurance. Congress rewrote the rules for Wall Street in the most comprehensive way since the Great Depression. It spent more than $1.67 trillion to revive an economy on the verge of a depression, including tax cuts for most Americans, jobs for more than 3 million, construction of roads and bridges and investment in alternative energy; ended an almost two-decade ban against openly gay men and women serving in the military, and today ratified a nuclear arms reduction treaty with Russia. > > . . . > > “This is probably the most productive session of Congress since at least the ‘60s,” said Alan Brinkley, a historian at New York’s Columbia University. “It’s all the more impressive given how polarized the Congress has been.” The notion that President Obama got nothing done is so absurd I have to wonder where you’ve been living for the past 3 years. The only president in recent memory to be inaugurated under worse circumstances than Barack Obama in 2009, was Harry Truman in 1945, who was sworn in on the heels of the Great Depression and still mired in WWII. Given that this president has had to deal with a global economic meltdown; the imminent collapse of major U.S. industries; the bleeding of millions of jobs; 2 ongoing wars; uprisings and protests in Iran, Egypt, Tunisia, Yemen, Bahrain and Libya; several massive international environmental disasters, especially the massive earthquake in Haiti and the earthquake, tsunami and nuclear catastrophe in Japan; several terrorist attack attempts here in the U.S., not to mention the bitter fight the Republicans have waged against him every step of the way, it’s amazing that anything got done in this country, let alone the sheer magnitude of what we did accomplish. This is just a _sampling_ of over 500 pieces of legislation that became law: 1. January 29, 2009: Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act 2. February 4, 2009: Children’s Health Insurance Reauthorization Act 3. February 17, 2009: American Recovery and Reinvestment Act 4. March 30, 2009: Omnibus Public Lands Management Act of 2009 5. April 21, 2009: Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act 6. May 20, 2009: Fraud Enforcement and Recovery Act 7. May 20, 2009: Helping Families Save Their Homes Act of 2009 8. May 22, 2009: Credit Card Accountability, Responsibility, and Disclosure Act of 2009 9. May 22, 2009: Weapon Systems Acquisition Reform Act of 2009 10. June 22, 2009: Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act 11. June 30, 2009: Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2009 12. August 6, 2009: Cash For Clunkers Extension Act 13. October 15, 2009: Enhanced Partnership with Pakistan Act of 2009 14. October 19, 2009: Foreign Evidence Request Efficiency Act of 2009 15. October 22, 2009: Veterans Health Care Budget Reform and Transparency Act 16. October 28, 2009: Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act 17. October 30, 2009: Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act 18. November 6, 2009: Worker, Homeownership, and Business Assistance Act of 2009 19. November 11, 2009: Military Spouses Residency Relief Act 20. December 15, 2009: No Social Security Benefits for Prisoners Act of 2009 21. December 22, 2009: Human Rights Enforcement Act of 2009 22. January 27, 2010: Emergency Aid to American Survivors of Haiti Earthquake Act 23. February 16, 2010: Nuclear Forensics and Attribution Act 24. February 27, 2010: Social Security Disability Applicants’ Access to Professional Representation Act of 2010 25. March 4, 2010: Travel Promotion Act 26. March 18, 2010: Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act (HIRE Act) 27. March 18, 2010: Statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of 2009 (Division B) Reestablished “pay-as-you-go” 28. March 23, 2010: Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act 29. March 30, 2010: Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 30. March 31, 2010: Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 31. April 7, 2010 Prevent Deceptive Census Look Alike Mailings Act 32. May 5, 2010: Caregivers and Veterans Omnibus Health Services Act of 2010 33. May 17, 2010: Daniel Pearl Freedom of the Press Act 34. May 24, 2010: Lord’s Resistance Army Disarmament and Northern Uganda Recovery Act of 2009 35. May 27, 2010: Federal Judiciary Administrative Improvements Act of 2010 36. June 9, 2010: Special Agent Samuel Hicks Families of Fallen Heroes Act 37. June 25, 2010: Preservation of Access to Care for Medicare Beneficiaries and Pension Relief Act of 2010 38. July 1, 2010: Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability, and Divestment Act of 2010 39. July 2, 2010: Homebuyer Assistance and Improvement Act of 2010 40. July 7, 2010: Formaldehyde Standards for Composite Wood Products Act 41. July 21, 2010: Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act 42. July 22, 2010: Improper Payments Elimination and Recovery Act of 2010 43. July 27, 2010: Cruise Vessel Security and Safety Act of 2010 44. August 3, 2010: Fair Sentencing Act of 2010 45. August 10, 2010: SPEECH Act of 2010 46. August 10, 2010: Cell Phone Contraband Act of 2010 47. August 11, 2010: United States Manufacturing Enhancement Act of 2010 48. September 27, 2010: Mandatory Price Reporting Act of 2010 49. September 27, 2010: Small Business Jobs and Credit Act of 2010 50. September 30, 2010: First Responder Anti-Terrorism Training Resources Act 51. September 30, 2010: Veterans’ Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2010 52. October 7, 2010: Reducing Over-Classification Act 53. October 7, 2010: Twenty-First Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act of 2010 54. October 8, 2010: Stem Cell Therapeutic and Research Reauthorization Act of 2010 55. October 7, 2010: Security Cooperation Act of 2010 56. October 12, 2010: Redundancy Elimination and Enhanced Performance for Preparedness Grants Act 57. October 12, 2010: Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act Improvements Act of 2010 58. October 12, 2010: Secure and Responsible Drug Disposal Act of 2010 59. October 13, 2010: Plain Writing Act of 2010 60. October 13, 2010: Veterans’ Benefits Act of 2010 61. October 15, 2010: United States Secret Service Uniformed Division Modernization Act of 2010 62. October 30, 2010: International Adoption Simplification Act 63. December 9, 2010: Telework Enhancement Act of 2010 64. December 9, 2010: Animal Crush Video Prohibition Act of 2010 65. December 13, 2010: Healthy, Hunger-Free Kids Act of 2010 66. December 14, 2010: Asian Carp Prevention and Control Act 67. December 15, 2010: CALM Act 68. December 17, 2010: Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 69. December 18, 2010: Truth in Fur Labeling Act of 2010 70. December 18, 2010: Social Security Number Protection Act of 2010 71. December 20, 2010: CAPTA Reauthorization Act of 2010 72. December 22, 2010: Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell Repeal Act of 2010 73. December 22, 2010: Regulated Investment Company Modernization Act of 2010 74. December 22, 2010: Truth in Caller ID Act of 2009 75. December 22, 2010: FOR VETS Act of 2010 76. December 22, 2010: Preserving Foreign Criminal Assets for Forfeiture Act of 2010 77. December 29, 2010: Omnibus Trade Act of 2010 78. December 29, 2010 Helping Heroes Keep Their Homes Act of 2010 79. January 4, 2011: Predisaster Hazard Mitigation Act of 2010 80. January 4, 2011: GPRA Modernization Act of 2010 81. January 4, 2011: FDA Food Safety Modernization Act 82. January 4, 2011: America COMPETES Reauthorization Act of 2010 83. January 4, 2011: Diesel Emissions Reduction Act of 2010 84. January 4, 2011: Supportive Housing for the Elderly Act of 2010 85. January 4, 2011 :Pedestrian Safety Enhancement Act of 2010 86. January 4, 2011: Frank Melville Supportive Housing Investment Act of 2010 87. January 4, 2011: Anti-Border Corruption Act of 2010 88. January 4, 2011: Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Improvements Act of 2010 89. January 4, 2011: Reduction of Lead in Drinking Water Act 90. September 29, 2010: Treaty with the United Kingdom Concerning Defense Trade Cooperation 91. September 29, 2010: Treaty with Australia Concerning Defense Trade Cooperation 92. September 29, 2010: Hague Convention on International Recovery of Child Support and Family Maintenance 93. December 22, 2010: New START 94. February 23, 2011: Obama declared the Defense of Marriage act unconstitutional and will no longer be defending the cases in the 1st and 2nd circuits. Compare that in both scope and import, to what the Republicans accomplished over a period of six years of control of both houses and the Presidency, and what they’ve done (or not done) since regaining control of the House of Representatives in 2010. There simply is no comparison. So what were you saying about him not being able to get things done? As for your crybaby temper tantrum over how he negotiated the debt reduction deal, you’re so far off the mark you may as well not be in the shooting range at all. > [@Josh Marshall of TPMMuckraker](#): > > [Another Take](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2011/08/another_take_5.php?ref=fpblg) > > Let me get this straight. The President kept revenues on the table, did not touch the sunset provisions in the Bush tax cuts, ensured that military cuts keep the GOP honest, protected Medicare by adding in only provider cuts in the trigger, made the reduction apparently enough to stave off a debt downgrade, got the debt ceiling raised, wounded Boehner by demonstrating to the world that he is controlled by the Tea Party caucus, took out the requirement that a BBA be passed and sent to the states and got the extension through 2012? What exactly is wrong with this deal? > [@M.S. Bellows Jr. of Vichy Democrats](#): > > [The Democrats’ Powerful Negotiating Position](http://vichydems.blogspot.com/2011/08/democrats-powerful-negotiating.html) > > Some otherwise-savvy people are obsessing on how awful the debt ceiling/budget-bending deal is, and are especially hung up on the fact that the Deal contains no new taxes (whether cast as “new revenues,” “canceling tax expenditures,” “revenue increases,” “closing loopholes,” “tax reform,” etc.). **In reality, however, the Deal not only has new taxes embedded in it, but it’s slanted heavily to the Democrats’ advantage in future negotiations.** Both the new taxes and the negotiating advantage are so obvious to me that I almost suspect some Progressives feel such a disconnect between the nearly infinite promise Obama displayed in the heady days of 2008, and his actual, imperfect performance when confronted with the actual demands of office, that they are emotionally unable to admit that, this time around, Obama may have negotiated a really good deal for Democrats. > > Don’t get me wrong: I agree wholeheartedly that, emotionally, this doesn’t FEEL like a good deal for Democrats. But as Stephen Colbert explained brilliantly in his very first show, it’s conservatives who make decisions based on how the truthiness feels; if liberals have anything going for them, it’s the ability to understand and accept truth even when it doesn’t _feel_ like truth. So, as a professional mediator who trusts that liberal prefrontal cortices are beefier than liberal amygdalas, let me try to explain why Democrats are in a pretty darn good negotiating position right now: > > \ > > But the law is the law, and the truth is the truth: if Congress is so dysfunctional that it does absolutely nothing but name post offices between now and 2013, tax rates will increase dramatically. Obama didn’t need to gain a single concession from the Republicans in order to win “new revenues”; to both prevent a Presidency-jeopardizing economic collapse and win the “new revenues” he said he wanted, all he needed to do was exit the negotiations with a deal that prevented the nation from default and left current law in place. > > Let me repeat that, because people don’t seem to realize its importance: **Current law slates the 1991 [sic] and 1993 [sic] Bush tax cuts to expire at the end of 2012. Obama didn’t need to gain a single concession from the Republicans in order to win “new revenues” – all he needed to do was exit the negotiations with a deal that prevented the nation from default and left current law in place.** > > Which, of course, is what this deal does. As for you not **working your ass off until you’re tired to the bone and your fingers are bleeding** , do you _want_ a 7-2 Right-leaning Supreme Court? Because if you don’t help Obama get re-elected and he loses to one of the Republican shitstains who are running, that’s exactly what’s going to happen. Ruth Bader Ginsberg will be retiring during the next term, that’s a given. And Justice Kennedy has said that he only intends to not retire during _this_ term of Obama’s. It’s a question mark as to whether he’d stay or not if Obama is reelected, but if President Romney is sitting in the White House, bye-bye Kennedy and Hello United Koch Brothers of America! _Why?_ Why would you be willing to see that happen to this country? Why? Because you’re butthurt? Do you _like_ Citizens United? Are you okay with the fact that Mitt Romney has now gotten not one, not two, but _three_ mysterious $1 million contributions from completely _bogus_ “corporations” to a PAC in support of him? [$1 million donation to pro-Romney PAC sparks questions](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/04/news/la-romney-donation-questions-20110804) [2 Utah companies donate $1 million apiece to Romney PAC](http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu-mitt-romney-2-utah-companies-donate-1-million-apiece-to-romney-campaign-20110804,0,4424937.story) Whose million dollar donations are these? Are they from a foreign government? Is Romney making these donations to himself and funneling it through his PAC so he doesn’t have to disclose that? _Was_ it the Koch Brothers? Was it someone on the Board of [ALEC](http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/american-legislative-exchange)? You know, maybe you don’t have to be worried about _your_ reproductive freedoms being stripped away from you. Maybe you don’t care if unions are abolished entirely. Maybe you don’t care about these so-called issues you “support,” if you’re willing to abandon them to avoid having to make the morally correct decision and put the country above yourself. But I’m sorry, [the Supreme Court is more important than you](http://reelectdemocrats.blogspot.com/2011/08/supreme-court-is-more-important-than.html), so get the fuck over it and, [as Ben Heinman Jr. of _The Atlantic_ says](http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/08/in-partial-defense-of-obama/243013/), “Liberals should be working every congressional and senatorial race, starting yesterday. Grass roots politics against conservatives, not Olympian op-eds [or message board posts] against President Obama, is the best answer for liberal critics of the debt-ceiling deal.” So climb down off your soap box, put on your Big Boy Pants, start supporting your president and get your ass to work for this country. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/140 "2011-08-06T12:51:17Z")
It’s kinda fun to step back and watch you work, **Shayna**! It’s not as much fun when we’re defending friends from other friends, but I think you’re doing good here. (Thanks for the link to the _Vichy Democrats_ article. I admit I was feeling fairly lonely in my analysis…) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322/141 "2011-08-06T17:32:34Z")
> [@xenophon41](#): > > It’s kinda fun to step back and watch you work, **Shayna**! It’s not as much fun when we’re defending friends from other friends, but I think you’re doing good here. (Thanks for the link to the _Vichy Democrats_ article. I admit I was feeling fairly lonely in my analysis…) Thank you, **xenophon**. Thank you very much. And you’re welcome for the Vichy Dems link. Their analysis of President Obama’s negotiation and all the possible outcomes is spot on (which means your analysis is, too). For the life of me I don’t understand why otherwise smart Democrats/Liberals/Moderates consistently forget how utterly brilliant Barack Obama is. He shredded nearly every demand the teajadists were insisting on, and at the same time, made them believe they got what they wanted, when the reality is, they got basically nothing. Follow my blog: [http://reelectdemocrats.blogspot.com/](http://reelectdemocrats.blogspot.com/) 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-debt-unpaid-in-full/591322.md?page=8)