# Obama's decision to opt out of public financing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579 "2008-06-20T13:46:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/1 "2008-06-20T13:46:55Z")
I need to understand this. From what I gather, Obama agreed to do the public financing thing, and then found that the republican party was getting tons of funds through some loophole. So Obama decided to turn down the 82 mil and go for private grass-roots funds, which so far has worked out well for him. 1. Why should McCain care if Obama changed his mind, as long as it’s legal? 2. Should this change of mind on Obama’s part be viewed as “dirty pool” or in any way negative? If it’s legal, shouldn’t it be viewed as a good business move? 3. Couldn’t McCain do the same thing? If so, and it is advantageous to do so, why wouldn’t he? Help me understand what all the ruckus is about. Discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/2 "2008-06-20T14:01:03Z")
Take a look at [this recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=472372). I’m not sure of the whole debate myself, but it seems you may find some answers there. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/3 "2008-06-20T15:06:51Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I need to understand this. From what I gather, Obama agreed to do the public financing thing, and then found that the republican party was getting tons of funds through some loophole. So Obama decided to turn down the 82 mil and go for private grass-roots funds, which so far has worked out well for him. 1. Why should McCain care if Obama changed his mind, as long as it’s legal? [/quote] This is politics. If he can make a stink about it and get people riled up, then whether or not he cares is besides the point. > [@](#): > > 1. Should this change of mind on Obama’s part be viewed as “dirty pool” or in any way negative? If it’s legal, shouldn’t it be viewed as a good business move? Yeah, it may be a good move for him to make, but the fact is he’s doing it out of expediency and pretty clearly breaking a pledge he made to the American people. What else is he going to change his mind about for expediency purposes? His claim that the public financing system is broken could have been made before he said he’d use it. Nothing has changed in the system since then, so it’s hard to believe that he just now discovered this broken aspect. > [@](#): > > 1. Couldn’t McCain do the same thing? If so, and it is advantageous to do so, why wouldn’t he? Well, he could and he kinda already did in the last few months even though he seems to intend to go back to public financing after the convention. > [@](#): > > Help me understand what all the ruckus is about. Discuss. Obama figured out that he can raise more money than McCain and forego the public financing route. He thinks it helps him politically more than it hurts him. McCain wants to make sure it hurts him as much as possible. We can’t know for sure, but I suspect we’d be seeing the same thing played out if the tables were turned. Maybe not, though, since McCain was one of the authors of the recent campaign finance bill and it would be much harder for him to say the system was broken. Also, this is the first time a major candidate went this route since public funding was initiated after Watergate. That alone makes it a big deal. From my perspective, it’s a small black mark against Obama. He’s sort of going back on a promise, but no one is really hurt by it. Still, McCain will have an excuse to turn a blind eye to any Swift Boat type group that comes along after Obama-- part of the deal on using public financing was that both candidates would discourage that sort of thing. And keep in mind that while Obama can raise more money than McCain, the Republican party can raise more money than the Democrats, so they can (and almost certainly will) use those funds to amp up McCain’s campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/4 "2008-06-20T15:07:40Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] Take a look at [this recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=472372). I’m not sure of the whole debate myself, but it seems you may find some answers there. [/QUOTE] Thanks. Interesting thread over there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/5 "2008-06-20T15:35:57Z")
[QUOTE=Kalhoun] I need to understand this. From what I gather, Obama agreed to do the public financing thing, and then found that the republican party was getting tons of funds through some loophole. So Obama decided to turn down the 82 mil and go for private grass-roots funds, which so far has worked out well for him. [/quote] He didn’t agree to the public financing thing. He agreed to a condition which McCain did not meet. > [@](#): > > 1. Why should McCain care if Obama changed his mind, as long as it’s legal? The only reason he cares is because he doesn’t know how to raise money as effectively as Obama does. > [@](#): > > 1. Should this change of mind on Obama’s part be viewed as “dirty pool” or in any way negative? If it’s legal, shouldn’t it be viewed as a good business move? There’s nothing dirty about it. He said he’d take public money if McCain would meet his conditions. McCain failed to do so. > [@](#): > > 1. Couldn’t McCain do the same thing? If so, and it is advantageous to do so, why wouldn’t he? McCain already has done it. He promised to use publc financing so he could get a loan. Then he tried to opt out, but when the bank didn’t take kindly to that, he opted back in. > [@](#): > > Help me understand what all the ruckus is about. Discuss. See [this video](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#25273881) of Keith Olbermann, who explains it thoroughly. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/6 "2008-06-20T15:51:15Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Yeah, it may be a good move for him to make, but the fact is he’s doing it out of expediency and pretty clearly breaking a pledge he made to the American people. What else is he going to change his mind about for expediency purposes? [/quote] There was no pledge. Even I got taken in by that rhetoric at first, but the reality is that all he ever said was that he would talk to McCain about establishing an agreement. McCain wan’t interested. That’s that. Obama made no “pledge to the American people” whatsoever. McCain is crying like a bitch about it only because Obama is out-raising him by more than a 2-1 margin. McCain is also being disingenuous since he still intends to benefit from 527 ads (and especially since they’ve said they’re going to swiftboat Obama’s wife). McCain has no right to complain about anything. This is a loser’s lament on his part. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/7 "2008-06-20T16:19:42Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] There was no pledge. Even I got taken in by that rhetoric at first, but the reality is that all he ever said was that he would talk to McCain about establishing an agreement. McCain wan’t interested. That’s that. Obama made no “pledge to the American people” whatsoever. [/QUOTE] Pffft. He said he would aggressively pursue negotiations, and all that happened was a 40 minute meeting with the lawyers from both sides. He signed a simple statment with a “yes” that he would use public financing if his Republican opponent would also. He broke the pledge. Sure, he left himself some wiggle room, but he clearly wanted people to think he was signed on to public financing. And his lame excuse about the system being broken is just that – lame. He didn’t even have the courage to announce this VERY BIG decision in person, instead sending out a video clip. Hard to ask questions in that kind of one-way communication. At any rate, I’m sure [FactCheck.Org](http://FactCheck.Org) will have an analysis of this out next week. In the meantime, here’s the editorial take on this by the strongly Obama-supporting San Jose Merc: Hmmm… I can’t link to the editorial, and get a “server error” instead. I’ll check back later today and see if it’s up. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/8 "2008-06-20T16:35:33Z")
It would be so \*great \* if the biggest thing to worry about was campaign finance, if that was the biggest issue in picking a candidate. Silver lining: a sure cure for constipation, just sit yourself down, think “President John McCain” and totally shit. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/9 "2008-06-20T16:35:49Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Pffft. He said he would aggressively pursue negotiations, and all that happened was a 40 minute meeting with the lawyers from both sides. [/quote] That’s not a pledge and McCain was not cooperative. > [@](#): > > He signed a simple statment with a “yes” that he would use public financing if his Republican opponent would also. He broke the pledge. That’s what I thought too, but it turns out it didn’t really happen. **Shayna** debunked that in the other thread. There was a questionaire, but there was no no checkbox for a “pledge.” > [@](#): > > Sure, he left himself some wiggle room, but he clearly wanted people to think he was signed on to public financing. He said he would support it if McCain did, but he never made a pledge. > [@](#): > > And his lame excuse about the system being broken is just that – lame. How so? Do you think the loopholes don’t really exist? > [@](#): > > He didn’t even have the courage to announce this VERY BIG decision in person, instead sending out a video clip. Hard to ask questions in that kind of one-way communication. Now THIS is a lame complaint. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/10 "2008-06-20T16:48:34Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] That’s what I thought too, but it turns out it didn’t really happen. **Shayna** debunked that in the other thread. There was a questionaire, but there was no no checkbox for a “pledge.” [/QUOTE] Here’s the relevant part from Shayna’s post, and there sure is “no” checkbox. Did they use the word pledge? No. But he wrote “yes” followed by some long, campaign-like spiel about how wonderful his proposed legislation is: \*If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system? Yes \_\_\_ No \_\_\_ CLINTON: No response. HUCKABEE: No response. MCCAIN: No response. OBAMA: Yes.\* [long explanation follows] He should not have said “Yes” if he meant “maybe”. Here’s the editorial from the Merc. They claim that his not taking public funds will doom the legislation that he says is so important: > [@](#): > > [Obama setting bad precedent on election finance](http://www.mercurynews.com/editorials/ci_9645305) > > …Still, by reneging on a promise, Obama invites questions about how good his word is. And his opponent, Republican Sen. John McCain, can claim moral high ground, having antagonized many in his own party to fight for campaign reform. McCain will abide by public financing rules. > > \ > > But Obama’s announcement will effectively doom a bill in Congress that would fix some of the problems with the current system. For example, it would substantially increase public funds to candidates, like McCain, whose opponents reject public funding. > > Call him a hypocrite or a realist: Obama is a sponsor of the bill. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/11 "2008-06-20T16:51:50Z")
So you agree, there was no pledge. The rest is irrelevant. You tried to gloss the caveat on the questionnaire answer but here it is: > [@](#): > > If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election. That’s not a pledge. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/12 "2008-06-20T16:54:13Z")
Oh, and speaking of “lame”, here’s what FactCheck has to say so far about the decision: > [@](#): > > [Obama’s Lame Claim About McCain’s Money](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obamas_lame_claim_about_mccains_money.html) > > Obama announced he would become the first presidential candidate since 1972 to rely totally on private donations for his general election campaign, opting out of the system of public financing and spending limits that was put in place after the Watergate scandal. > > One reason, he said, is that “John McCain’s campaign and the Republican National Committee are fueled by contributions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs.” > > We find that to be a large exaggeration and a lame excuse. In fact, donations from PACs and lobbyists make up less than 1.7 percent of McCain’s total receipts, and they account for only about 1.1 percent of the RNC’s receipts. > > \ > > Also, for what it’s worth, the Democratic National Committee has historically been far more reliant on PAC and lobbyist money than the RNC. In 2004, PACs provided about 10 percent of the DNC’s total fundraising and only about 1 percent of the RNC’s total, according to the CRP. Obama, after he sewed up enough delegates to win the party’s nomination, sent word to the DNC to stop accepting PAC and lobbyist donations. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/13 "2008-06-20T16:56:37Z")
Factcheck is being disingenuous. It’s not counting the 527 stuff. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/14 "2008-06-20T16:58:06Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] So you agree, there was no pledge. The rest is irrelevant. [/QUOTE] I don’t agree that the word “pledge” has to be in there for it to be a pledge. He said he would do it. That’s enough for me. If you really want to say he simply went back on his word instead of breaking a pledge, that’s OK with me. But I see no difference between those two statements. I certainly hope I don’t have to expect him to “pledge” every time he makes a commitment to us in order for us to expect him to keep that commitment. If that is the case, then I’ll vote for McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/15 "2008-06-20T16:59:34Z")
How is it Obama sort of changes his mind on public financing (which is no surprise to anyone) and everyone jumps on the, “OMG! Flip flopper!” bandwagon when we can all easily point to numerous instances of McCain reversing himself all over the place? How is it McCain plays rather fast and loose with the decision to go with public financing (I’m in, I’m out, ok I’m back in again) and yet it is Obama who is some pledge breaker? How is it Obama being the only one to even answer that question is getting busted for it where the other candidates avoided it completely (which I can only see as a way to not take a stance so they can do what suits them down the road)? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/16 "2008-06-20T17:01:22Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t agree that the word “pledge” has to be in there for it to be a pledge. He said he would do it. That’s enough for me. If you really want to say he simply went back on his word instead of breaking a pledge, that’s OK with me. But I see no difference between those two statements. I certainly hope I don’t have to expect him to “pledge” every time he makes a commitment to us in order for us to expect him to keep that commitment. If that is the case, then I’ll vote for McCain. [/QUOTE] He did NOT say he would do it. He said he would _pursue an agreement_. He said that _on the questionnaire_. There was no "committment. You are making things up. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/17 "2008-06-20T17:08:07Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] He should not have said “Yes” if he meant “maybe”. [/quote] I continue to be floored by the elementary shool grasp your posts have shown of some of these concepts which, by any historical measure, are not above you. There was no maybe; hence, the qualified response. If you disagreed with his reasoning, it would be one thing, but you don’t even acknowledge his reasoning. That’s just … bizarre. > [@](#): > > Here’s the editorial from the Merc. They claim that his not taking public funds will doom the legislation that he says is so important: Oh, yeah, the sky is falling and we can depend on the vaunted opinionaters of editorial boards to set us straight — like the Mercury News, which told us in 2003 that Colin Powell, made the case on behalf of the Bush administration for invading Iraq “without resorting to exaggeration, a rhetorical tool he didn’t need.” ([Cite](http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0909-08.htm).) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/18 "2008-06-20T17:08:29Z")
if McCain was the one raising all the private money, there’s no way he would agree to public funding. It’s a complete, self-serving jerk-off on his part. He screwed himself with dishonest attempt to game the system and now he has the nerve to cry foul and appeal to fictional “broken pledges.” And this is a guy who has reversed more positions than a tantric yoga instructor. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/19 "2008-06-20T17:09:01Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Factcheck is being disingenuous. It’s not counting the 527 stuff. [/QUOTE] Can someone define the 527 thing for me? ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2008, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579/20 "2008-06-20T17:16:21Z")
The doldrums was a good place to drop this. It’s sort of confusing, nobody really understands what the hubbub is beyond close followers of the process (most of whom have likely made up their minds). Eventually it will drop back and there’s not much hay to be made from it in the long run. That all said, it seems non-kosher to me, he’s violating the spirit of the statement he wrote on that questionnaire, on account of he had no idea that he’d be able to fund-raise like he has. I think he’d be dumb to limit himself to public funding, and I don’t want him to, but it’s still a little slippery and he’s not really facing it head on, he’s being squirrelly about the causes for his decision, when it’s really all about the sheer amount of money he’d sacrifice by going with public financing. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-decision-to-opt-out-of-public-financing/453579.md?page=2)