# Obama's Double-Leg Takedown of Bernie Sanders and Supporters
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [May 9, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439 "2016-05-09T21:04:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/41 "2016-05-10T11:59:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> I honestly don’t understand how anyone could read this transcript and not see it as a broadside against young Bernheads. Fascinating. (Did you read the more extended excerpts I posted?)
Before there was a Sanders campaign, it was observable that the people who turned out to vote for Obama were not turning out in the midterms, and that notmal Republicans had surrendered the downticket primary to the Tea Party (thus leading to “I am not a witch” moments).
And I also agree that at Howard there would be precious few BB’s but there would very likely be a lot who in 2016 may feel tempted to say “the system’s all corrupt” and instead go to an all night Occupy/BLM rally while letting some reactionary get elected (you can go to the rally AND vote in an ally).
“Passion is not enough, you need a strategy” would be applicable, in hindsight, even to Obama’s own supporters. And it’s good advice even to the Trump fans today.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/42 "2016-05-10T12:10:59Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> While I have quibbles with Obama’s arguments (like I do not see knowing names as a proxy for political engagement–names are easily googleable), the main problem I have is in trying to turn this into yet another way to bash your political opponents. It wasn’t cool when adaher was doing it, and it’s not cool when the OP does it. There’s a fucking reason Obama didn’t attack any one side in particular in his speech.
>
> Bernie Bros are as much a thing as SJWs. It’s just a contemptuous term to shit on the other side. And that contempt is what is creating the divisions. It is not easy to get people you show contempt for to join you. Yeah, maybe they logically should, but people are emotional creatures, not just logical ones. And you can’t fucking treat them like shit and then whine because they won’t join you.
>
> The way to get Sanders supporters on your side is to show how much you agree with their goals, not to belittle them for being idealists. And that’s what I feel Obama is trying to do in this speech. I don’t know if he quite succeeded, but he at least did not attack anyone directly.
>
> No, that was the Clinton supporters, who used it as yet another way to attack the Sanders supporters. And now the Sanders supporters will continue to attack the Clinton supporters. Neither side will actually try to unite.
>
> And that is ultimately the problem.
I get what your saying but the reason I called out Sanders voters (not all of them, by the way) is that they most likely were the intended target of the message. I agree that they weren’t the only ones Obama was talking to, but he almost certainly had them in mind. He wanted to be tactful and presidential, which he should be as president.
I, on the other hand, as a voting citizen am in no such position and I have no qualms about calling people out. I’m a citizen who sees something wrong with what other voters and other citizens are doing when it comes to civic duty or the lack of its exercise. Yes, I need to be fair and reasonable when taking fellow voters to task, but it’s not wrong to point out where other voters are going off the rails.
The problem - the real problem - over the past 15-25 years is voter inactivity. That’s a problem in and of itself. But I get more than a little irritated when I see someone who sits out elections lecturing me about how I ‘don’t get it’ and how the system is broken. No, the system isn’t broken on its own; it’s broken because people avoid civic responsibility and believe that hyper-activism over one super candidate every 4 or 8 years will solve our problems.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/43 "2016-05-10T12:15:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> The system is great. It’s the people who are the problem. :roll eyes:
>
> Otherwise… cite?
>
> Leaders lead. People who are unable to lead bitch and complain, blaming other people.
Encouraging people to vote is part of leading, but not everyone is capable of being led.
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### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/44 "2016-05-10T12:16:55Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> I honestly don’t understand how anyone could read this transcript and not see it as a broadside against young Bernheads.
Elements of it are that, in part. But it’s much bigger. It refers to things that were happening before Sanders’ campaign started, and to people that are not notably Sanders supporters.
It’s about commitment to ongoing involvement in the process. That has been, and would still be an issue, had Sanders never run.
ETA: Ah, **JRDelirious** above has already said as much. That it applies to TPers and Trumpists too, is a great point. Certain partisans are reading it far too narrowly.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/45 "2016-05-10T12:16:58Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> It is incumbent upon the people to vote, not on politicians to coax them into voting! FFS.
>
> I came here to post about this same speech, which might just be my favorite thing ever. There are some other sections that I really love, so here is is my version:
>
> H/t to Nicole for leading me to this, maybe my favorite Obama speech ever–and that’s saying something. In fact, it’s one of the greatest anythings ever. I heart it so much. Some excerpts of some of the awesomeness:
Lots of excellent stuff there and I agreed with it, almost word for word.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/46 "2016-05-10T12:26:22Z")
“You failed as a leader because you failed to persuade me that when I said I wanted something, I wanted it enough to actually do something about it?” I’m sorry, no.
We get the government we deserve. At the very least, we get the government we vote for. Our system does not give a president or any other individual sufficient power to do everything single-handedly.
It’s stupid to blame a lack of leadership qualities for failing to act outside the bounds of the power he or she has been given. You want X reforms? Did you vote in all the elections that would help achieve that goal?
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/47 "2016-05-10T12:49:40Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> The system is great. It’s the people who are the problem. :roll eyes:
>
> Otherwise… cite?
>
> Leaders lead. People who are unable to lead bitch and complain, blaming other people.
I like how you apparently gloss over the fact that the United States is extremely diverse, politically speaking. It’s even more diverse now, and arguably more complicated to govern, than at any time in its history. It was arguably easier for FDR to govern a mostly white male electorate that could largely be separated into either the industrial northeast and the agrarian south. Not the case anymore. More diverse participation and more ideologically splintered than ever. I’ll start there.
But all anyone needs to do to undermine your view of politics is to consider how the opposition is beating back your interests. How are they doing that? How is the opposition defeating things like universal health care?
Sure, they’re using money to do that. But does money alone explain it? I don’t think it does. See, the irony of the Sanders candidacy itself - and something I must admit that I admire about his campaign - is the fact that he has proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that intense activism and a commitment to political advocacy can overcome disadvantages that things like incumbency and Super PACs create.
The issue now, as it has been over the past several decades, is that, frankly, the ideological right wing has a lot more stamina than the ideological left. They are a lot more determined. They are a lot more committed to their cause than we are. I hate to admit that, but those are just the cold, hard facts. I also admit that, to a man, the average conservative ideologue is more committed to their cause than I am to the causes that I support, even though I vote regularly and consider myself above average in terms of my level of political activity and enthusiasm. So I’m not entirely skipping blame here.
But consider this: the Supreme Court in 1973 said that abortion rights are the law of the land. And yet, abortion is effectively outlawed and unavailable, practically speaking, for 90 percent of the population in this country. Now, how did this happen?
It happened because in the 1980s, the conservatives decided that they were going to find ways to attack abortion piecemeal. They were going to be relentless. They were declaring war on abortion rights. They accepted that this war would last a long, long time – so long that it would probably outlive the people who were starting their campaign. But they were committed to starting that war, waging it, and finishing it. And they quite nearly have. All that’s remaining, all that stands in their way, is a single supreme court justice who’s open to revisiting that case. But it’s not like they really need it anyway, because on the state level, where many of the republicans have waged their own wars in a state-by-state strategy, they have, over the course of years, congressional terms, and decades, changed the political landscape in their favor. In fact they have changed it so much that **even if you elected the most liberal president in an overwhelming landslide victory, absolutely nothing would change for the overwhelming majority of women who cannot get a legal abortion in the United States.** That is not insignificant, and I bold that part for emphasis, because until you get that part, you will never, ever change anything, no matter who you think is most qualified to be commander in chief.
In the meantime, there are real people who are affected by the rise of the ideological right. Take, for instance, the example of Purvi Patel, who was found guilty of infanticide and is now serving a decades-long sentence in a state prison. She was found guilty on the basis of an abortion rights medical doctor who argued in court that the fetus was terminated while still alive, using medical science that has been discredited for nearly a century. That in and of itself would be bad enough, but when you consider the fact that it is not at all a stretch to conclude that in states such as Indiana, North Dakota, Kansas, and elsewhere, there exists the very real possibility, if not the probability, that real women are going to be subjected to criminal prosecution for no other reason than having a miscarriage. This is not fiction. This is reality.
The point of this? The point is, this legal system that is now so blatantly hostile to pregnant women, much like the one that has been so blatantly hostile to young African American men who were accused of pushing narcotics, was made possible because the other side has had a much stronger ideological commitment to its values than the rest of us have. It will take more – much more – than just voting for one candidate, because like I said, not even the president, not even the supreme court, would be able to reverse this situation at present. You have to be involved. In order to win a war, you need to know the lay of the land, you need to assess your strengths, your weaknesses, the opposition’s strengths, the opposition’s weaknesses. You need, as you quite rightly stated, to have a leader, but you also need to have the commitment of devoted warriors for the cause, and those warriors, like the commanders themselves, need to understand that there are going to be set backs, that supply lines will be interrupted, that generals will make bad decisions, that some leaders will disappoint them and be unfit to lead, but that you support the next general up and the next soldier beside you. It is a war. The opposition understands this. But do we?
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### Author:  [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/48 "2016-05-10T12:51:20Z")
Wow, Obama just took down a peg all the people who voted for him in 2008 thinking he would save the country.
This isn’t about Bernie. It never was. Obama’s supporters were exactly the same way. So were John McCain’s.
It’s about the dominance of the Presidency in political conversation. It’s about media incentives, and seeking the big story with broad appeal over the thousands of little stories with only local appeal.
And, in the end, it’s about the chief executive of the federal government being legitimately a very big deal because of the enormous amount of patronage attached.
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### Author:  [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/49 "2016-05-10T12:58:02Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#):
>
> Wow, Obama just took down a peg all the people who voted for him in 2008 thinking he would save the country.
>
> This isn’t about Bernie. It never was. Obama’s supporters were exactly the same way. So were John McCain’s.
As well he should. Because anyone who voted for him thinking they were voting for a savior needs a kick in the head. There is no office of savior. There are many major and minor offices which add up to incremental change. You can’t cast one ballot and expect everything to be okay from now on. And if you do expect that, you need to be taken down a peg. And if voting once or twice a year to get incremental change is too hard for you then you need to grow up.
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### Author:  [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/50 "2016-05-10T15:04:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> Oh, boo-hoo. The voters didn’t come out and vote for my side. Well, what the hell did you do to get them riled up and wanting to vote? Is this a take-down of Sanders or Obama?
It’s a take down of younger voters, mostly Sanders supporters and the exact attitude you are displaying. You are the problem, not Obama.
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### Author:  [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/51 "2016-05-10T15:12:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> The point is, you need allies in a democracy. That’s just the way it is. It can be frustrating and it can be slow. But history teaches us that the alternative to democracy is always worse….
Really not sure about this. It sounds very American.
What you need is votes because votes give you a democratic mandate i.e. stand back, the people have spoken and expressed their desire.
I can’t recall a democratic mandate being thwarted in Europe, unless it’s Germany in relation to the euro and other nations sovereignty.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/52 "2016-05-10T16:12:50Z")
For the democratic mandate you need votes, for putting it in motion in a representative republican or parliamentary system of government you need allies. They go together. There are 434 congressional districts where you don’t vote.
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/53 "2016-05-10T16:20:48Z")
Lots of great posts. I especially liked the analogy to a “broken” smart phone.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/54 "2016-05-10T16:38:59Z")
> [@](#):
>
> If you think that the only way forward is to be as uncompromising as possible, you will feel good about yourself, you will enjoy a certain moral purity, but you’re not going to get what you want. And if you don’t get what you want long enough, you will eventually think the whole system is rigged.
This is why there are walls – to put people up against!
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### Author:  [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/55 "2016-05-10T18:09:08Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#):
>
> For the democratic mandate you need votes, for putting it in motion in a representative republican or parliamentary system of government you need allies. They go together. There are 434 congressional districts where you don’t vote.
Not in a Parliamentary system. The mandate is with the largest party.
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### Author:  [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/56 "2016-05-10T19:14:34Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#):
>
> Not in a Parliamentary system. The mandate is with the largest party.
Ever heard of a coalition?
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### Author:  [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/57 "2016-05-10T19:47:40Z")
> [@asahi](#):
>
> But at the end of the day, can you answer Obama’s challenge? Do you know the local DA? Do you know your congressional district number? Do you know the rep? Do you know the mayor, the alderman, the state rep? Do you know who the judges or any of these people are?
>
> No?!
Way to demonstrate the exact contempt this argument demonstrates. I have voted every year since 1988. I know my congressional rep, my DA, the state DA and Senator.
> [@](#):
>
> Don’t waste your vote on Bernie then, because it proves you know nothing of the system. If you’re going to start a revolution, it pays to know what it is (and isn’t) that you’re trying to change.
:dubious:
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/58 "2016-05-10T21:43:05Z")
Wow. Seriously, \*another \*anti-Sanders thread? Did one of the other six fall off the main page? The nomination is sewn up, but there’s no such thing as winning graciously I guess.
I’m resigned to voting for Hillary, but every time another OP comes in to bash the guy _she’s already beaten_ makes me less likely to give her any other kind of support.
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/59 "2016-05-10T21:53:53Z")
I should have added that it’s still a good speech (as most of Obama’s are), and I’d vote for him a third time if I could. I’m curious if the accusation that Bernie supporters didn’t vote in the last couple of elections has any actual evidence - I haven’t missed an election since '88.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2016, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/60 "2016-05-10T21:54:16Z")
> [@Skammer](#):
>
> I’m resigned to voting for Hillary, but every time another OP comes in to bash the guy _she’s already beaten_ makes me less likely to give her any other kind of support.
Tell that to Bernie the next time you see him.
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