# Obama's Double-Leg Takedown of Bernie Sanders and Supporters
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [May 9, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439 "2016-05-09T21:04:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/81 "2016-05-12T10:57:53Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> While I have quibbles with Obama’s arguments (like I do not see knowing names as a proxy for political engagement–names are easily googleable),
Perhaps knowing names isn’t a good proxy for political engagement, but _NOT_ knowing names strikes me as a pretty good proxy for non-engagement…
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/82 "2016-05-12T11:00:51Z")
I’d wondered a while ago if there would ever arise a Democratic version of the Tea Party. Bernie Sanders supporters are the closest thing to it.
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### Author:  [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/83 "2016-05-12T11:12:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#):
>
> **Carlb** , great post.
>
> And I laughed (literally). But I really do think a lot of Bernie followers believe that in all sincerity.
A lot of Bernie voters believe that they somehow see corruption that the rest of us can’t see. We see it; we just have a different strategy for dealing with it.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/84 "2016-05-12T11:32:13Z")
And the pure self-righteousness of denunciation just feels so _good_!
All that making change happen stuff is hard work and compromising and just takes too much commitment. Much easier to demand that others do it instead. While remaining pure themselves, somehow.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/85 "2016-05-12T17:00:20Z")
FWIW despite the berating of Sanders supporters that is going on here I read this as no double leg takedown by Obama on anyone, not Sanders supporters or the BLM movement, as much as it is a sales pitch to to try to move some of the passions of both groups into sustained actions that make actual progress. He berates and belittles no one in this.
Barney Frank’s style is to exhort in a takedown mode perhaps … Obama instead tries to convince that voting in midterms matters mightily and longterm sustained action with compromises but staying at the table working it out is the true path to progress more than yelling alone.
Dang I’ll miss him as President.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/86 "2016-05-12T17:05:41Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> And the pure self-righteousness of denunciation just feels so _good_!
I can’t tell if you’re being ironically or unironically self-deprecating, and I know that using my irony meter anywhere near the Internet voids its warranty, so I guess I’ll live with the mystery :).
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### Author:  [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/87 "2016-05-12T18:13:28Z")
I agree that Obama has some ideas in this speech that are pretty clearly aimed at Sanders and his supporters, but he really isn’t singling out Sanders supporters as staying home in 2014.
He calls out two groups in particular for not bothering to vote in the midterms: young voters (not sure what constitutes “young”) and African American voters.
The first group went heavily for Sanders this time around, so there’s a good bet that most of the “young people” who stayed home, if they’re involved in politics at all at this point, are Sanders supporters now.
OTOH, black Americans went heavily for Clinton this time around, so it’s a good bet that most African Americans who stayed home (again assuming they have become involved for the first time or again) are Clinton supporters now. Either way, he isn’t blaming the 2014 loss on any one group or on either candidate’s base.
That being said, I think **Skammer** ’s question above (about whether Sanders supporters were more likely to have stayed home in 2014) is an interesting one. I don’t know about any data on the subject. What we do know is that Sanders has talked frequently about bringing people into the political process. If this is true, then yes, a lot of those people must have chosen not to vote in 2014. (If you did vote in a midterm two years back it’s hard to see how you were “brought in” to the process this year.)
A corollary is that Clinton is NOT bringing people into the process…so if Sanders’s statement is accurate, then it makes sense to conclude that yes, many current Sanders supporters did stay home in 2014. --But I don’t know if Sanders has any real data to back that up.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [May 12, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/88 "2016-05-12T18:19:56Z")
> [@DigitalC](#):
>
> It’s a take down of younger voters, mostly Sanders supporters and the exact attitude you are displaying. You are the problem, not Obama.
Uhm, I’ve voted in every election since I turned 18 back in 1974. I am not the leader of the nation, Obama is. Whose problem is this again?
But I just got my CA primary ballot today in the mail, and I’m going to happily vote for Bernie. You don’t like it, that’s your problem!
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/89 "2016-05-13T00:44:46Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> I can’t tell if you’re being ironically or unironically self-deprecating, and I know that using my irony meter anywhere near the Internet voids its warranty, so I guess I’ll live with the mystery :).
Cut a little too close to the bone for ya, huh?
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### Author:  [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/90 "2016-05-13T04:12:49Z")
I just happened to hear on a podcast that only 25% of Millennials voted in 2010. So…do the 24-35yo Bernheads represent that 25%? I have my doubts.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/91 "2016-05-13T10:48:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#):
>
> Cut a little too close to the bone for ya, huh?
As I said before: ironically, or unironically, self-deprecating? The world will never know.
(Folks can easily read my posts to see that I’ve defended both Clinton and Sanders from what I consider the wave of unwarranted attacks on both.)
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/92 "2016-05-13T11:11:59Z")
Nope, try again.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/93 "2016-05-13T11:18:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> As I said before: ironically, or unironically, self-deprecating? The world will never know.
>
> (Folks can easily read my posts to see that I’ve defended both Clinton and Sanders from what I consider the wave of unwarranted attacks on both.)
I am sure you honestly perceive yourself as having done such.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/94 "2016-05-13T11:34:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> I am sure you honestly perceive yourself as having done such.
Well, of course I do. I’ve been blocked by Sanders supporters on Facebook, and I’ve come out against people here for being jerks about Clinton. Are you saying you believe I am mistaken? Do you genuinely think that you’re coming at this election from a fairer perspective such taht your judgment on the issue is better than mine? Say the word, and I’ll give quotes.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/95 "2016-05-13T12:28:47Z")
Screw it, here are your examples of my criticizing Sanders supporters, complimenting/defending Clinton, or a mix. Keep in mind that I do have real problems both with Clinton’s approach to politics and with her actual politics, so I’m never going to be a full-scale cheerleader for her; still, can either of you claim any similar fairmindedness that would justify your snark at me?
> [@Bernie Sanders is like Jesus: He's pretty rad, his fan club sucks](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bernie-sanders-is-like-jesus-hes-pretty-rad-his-fan-club-sucks/750782/197):
>
> I know, right? The only consolation is the meme that just showed up on my FB feed: “Bernie is like Morrissey: he’s great, but his fans are terrible.”
>
> I am at this point so freakin’ tired of those Sanders fans (a minority, admittedly) who are convinced that the only reason Sanders is losing is shenanigans. His campaign was always a super long shot. He’s losing because progressive values aren’t mainstream yet. The fact that he’s pushed them into the mainstream as much as he has
>
> (OVERTON WINDOW
> OVERTON WINDOW
> OVERTON WINDOW
> OVERTON WINDOW
> OVERTON WINDOW)
>
> is a huge success.
> [@Hillary Clinton's Presidential Campaign Discussion](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hillary-clintons-presidential-campaign-discussion/753873/23):
>
> I think back to the Romney/Obama debates, and the “Proceed, governor” moment. That’s the kind of mood I’d like to see Clinton go for when Trump is being an idiot. But I’m not sure it’d work. Being a woman is going to make this a difficult campaign.
>
> If she’s coming right back at Trump, she’s a ball-buster.
> If she’s ignoring his tantrums, she’s a cold bitch.
> If she is calm but shows it hurts her, she’s too emotional to be president.
> If she outplays him (“Proceed, governor,”) she’s an arrogant bitch.
>
> The reverse has some truth to it: Trump has no way of attacking her without being called misogynist, fairly or unfairly. But I don’t know that it matters so much for his supporters, many of whom have shown themselves gleefully misogynistic; it certainly doesn’t seem to matter to him.
>
> I think Clinton can run intellectual and policy and strategic circles around Trump. I’m not enough of a wonk to know whether that’s a good idea.
>
> (Hey, I just noticed that “wonk” is the opposite of “know.” Is that on purpose? Did everyone else know that and I just realized it?)
> [@The way the Democratic establishment is treating Bernie supporters is a blunder.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-way-the-democratic-establishment-is-treating-bernie-supporters-is-a-blunder/753263/236):
>
> I think I’ve got a record here of supporting Sanders and speaking out pretty loudly against obnoxious behavior from Clinton supporters. Keep that in mind as I say, what the hell are you thinking?
>
> Your post here and continuing in your other posts demonstrate a remarkably self-centered approach to politics. This is an excellent place for you to check your privilege.
>
> A Trump presidency is likely to have severe impacts on people of color. Are you white, such that you can ignore these effects? It’s likely to be miserable for Muslims. Are you non-Muslim, so you can safely ignore these effects? There’s a pretty good chance (who the hell can even tell) that it’s not going to be great for women of childbearing age. Are you male, such that you can ignore these effects? It’ll probably be awful for kids living in poverty, and for their parents. Are you middle-class, so that you can ignore these effects?
>
> A Trump presidency will have very real, very serious adverse effects for literally millions of people. For you to decide to stay home on elections day because of hurt feelings is a terrible way to cast a vote.
>
> I’m not at all crazy about Clinton. A lot of Clinton supporters completely disgust me with their behavior. But my emotional state is not so fragile that a bunch of yahoos saying dumb things about me are going to cloud my political analysis.
>
> I’m at the point where the superpower I wish for is the power to clonk peoples’ heads together like coconuts. About a third of Sanders supporters, and about a third of Clinton supporters, would be making the most satisfying clonking sound right about now.
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### Author:  [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/96 "2016-05-13T12:35:55Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> , can either of you claim any similar fairmindedness that would justify your snark at me?
DSeid has asked people to stop using terms like “Bernie bros” and has been mostly fairminded, despite being a little worked up about Sanders hammering on Clinton’s money connection. ElvisL1ves on the other hand…
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/97 "2016-05-13T12:38:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#):
>
> DSeid has asked people to stop using terms like “Bernie bros” and has been mostly fairminded, despite being a little worked up about Sanders hammering on Clinton’s money connection. ElvisL1ves on the other hand…
Huh. I confess I missed that, **Dseid** , and I appreciate it.
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### Author:  [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/98 "2016-05-13T13:55:02Z")
I honestly am not at all interested in rehashing [this Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=789511).
Yes, you believe that I am an obnoxious and biggest “Elections forum tweaker” … feel free to give all the quotes supporting that you want in a new Pit thread if you so desire. You have “the word” to do so.
And yes I believe that you honestly believe that you are a paragon of evenhandedness since of course what is evenhanded is where your personal perspective lies of what is and is not over the line. And of course I believe I am doing the same. And of course I believe that my judgement on the issue is better than yours as much as you believe that your judgement is better than mine.
Yes you have called out some of the more extreme hostility from some of the Sanders side during this cycle, mainly when it crosses the place you draw your personal line: announcing an actual intention to vote against Clinton.
Yes you have defended both Clinton and Sanders from what you consider the wave of unwarranted attacks on both … but mild criticism of Sanders that you disagree with has to you warranted derision back. You have, to my read and experience, from where I sit, a very low threshold for what is off limits in that direction. I accept that our perceptions of where the lines should be placed vary.
In any case, again, feel free to open a Pit thread if you want. For this thread my input is that there is no beat down in Obama’s statement and using it to attack Sanders supporters is unwarranted and unhelpful.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/99 "2016-05-13T13:59:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> And yes I believe that you honestly believe that you are a paragon of evenhandedness
You are incorrect. I’m not a paragon of evenhandedness. When my buddy and I are chased by a bear, and I put on my sneakers so I can outrun him, it doesn’t make me Jesse Owens. It just makes me faster than my buddy.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [May 13, 2016, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obamas-double-leg-takedown-of-bernie-sanders-and-supporters/754439/100 "2016-05-13T14:11:02Z")
> [@DSeid](#):
>
> For this thread my input is that there is no beat down in Obama’s statement and using it to attack Sanders supporters is unwarranted and unhelpful.
I should say, I agree with this. At this point, I’d prefer Democrats confine bickering to substantive policy issues. Criticism of Sanders’s economic proposals is awesome. Criticsm of Clinton’s support of military interventionism is fine. These continued snipes about how Sanders supporters are too naive, or Clinton supporters may as well be Republicans, is vituperative nonsense.
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